Inpd

I rode Road cleats for about 100 miles but couldn't find pedals which accepted road cleats on one side and had a platform on another. But Shimano make the A530 which does this for MTB cleats. But I find my MTB cleats don't seem as efficient when pedaling. I have no empirical evidence to back this up but the feel of power and transition seems much greater for road pedals/cleats.

Is there any empirical evidence to suggest if one is more efficient than the other?

HOWSER

Nope.

Wilfred Laurier

If you have very flexy shoes then there might be a very small loss of power, and more so with smaller mtb cleats than with larger road cleats, but otherwise road and mtb pedals should operate almost exactly the same.

1nterceptor

What's the weight of your MTB shoes & pedals and the weight of your road shoes & pedals?
I'm guessing it's not the same. Road shoes are sleek and light while MTB shoes are chunky
due to the lugs that have to bite into mud/dirt. I would think that even the slightest weight
difference would make a difference on something that you have to rotate almost 100 times
a minute. One way to equalize the performance of MTB systems with road systems is to not
use MTB shoes. Get a touring/commuting pair; no heavy/unnecessary lugs. Also, if you're using
heavy SPD M520 vs. a titanium Speedplay; that wouldn't be a fair comparison either.

Scott Touring shoes with Xpedo R Force titanium pedals(SPD compatible; 170 grms. for the pair):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh5V...6zPoymgKaIoDLA

andr0id

It's really more about the shoes. If you have walkable mtb shoes, they're not going to be as stiff, but the soles on racing mtb shoes are just as stiff as road bike soles.

Most road shoes have a stiff sole since they're going to have a big chunky cleat attached and not for walking anyway.

Seattle Forrest

I used mountain bike pedals (SPDs, A-520) for more than half a decade. This year I switched to road pedals (Look Keo) because I had to in order to use the power meter I chose (Garmin Vector). I've got a lot of use (well over 1,000 miles, would have to look it up to be any more precise) on the road pedals too now.

I can't feel or tell any difference whatsoever in terms of power transmission.

I can feel a very minor difference in terms of comfort, with the road system being better. But it's probably the shoes.

I've been using very stiff carbon soled shoes for years. The first pair of shoes I got was flexy, and at the end of long rides I'd be sore. You're probably right that the shoe itself doesn't lose much power but if your feet aren't as comfortable you probably won't put as much down.

69chevy

There is no evidence to support that any cleated shoe gives you any more efficiency than riding barefoot (for obvious reasons this is a bad idea).

Your foot (from the ball back) is incredibly rigid allowing people with explosive muscles to jump upwards of 50 inches vertically and 30 feet horizontally.

Attaching your foot to a pedal allows you to pull up on the back stroke, which almost no one does except if their legs are dying on a climb.

The benefits of cleats are small, but for me the best benefit is keeping my foot where I want it, which helps me keep a smoother pedal stroke and allows me to spin faster without my foot slipping off.

Plus it makes bunnyhopping a road bike easier.

Seattle Forrest

In practice, I can't feel the difference you're talking about. If you set up a double blind test, with cyclists on a trainer, I'm pretty sure almost on one could. Assuming we're talking about a fair challenge, good road shoes and pedals against good MTB shoes pedals.

EDIT: I just looked it up, my road system is heavier than my MTB system, at least by claimed weight. I wouldn't have known without checking.

Pedals: 315g for MTB vs 426g for road
Shoes: 355g for MTB vs 486g for road

To be fair, all power meters come with a weight penalty. And the road shoes are heavy because they didn't have much stock the day I needed them. But the point is the weight difference hasn't made itself obvious.

philbob57

How can you do a double-blind test between MTB and road hoes/cleats/pedals?

Any rider I can imagine will have an easy time knowing whether he's riding road pedals or MTBs....

roccobike

I used Shimano MTB pedals for about three years then changed to LOOK pedals. The reason had nothing to do with efficiency or shoe comfort. The MTB cleats did not have sufficient float and my knees were beginning to complain bitterly. Based on some input on these forums, I tried a set of LOOK pedals that I had from a bike I flipped. After four weeks the pain was gone and so were the Shimano MTB pedals on my road bikes. I still use them on my MTBs, but those rides are much shorter than the road rides.

datlas 

Correct

Ghazmh

Road pedals have a much more authoritative click than mountain pedals.

Inpd

Thanks Guys

To paraphrase. Your saying with road bike shoes (stiff soles) that there is no power difference) only that MTB cleats may have less float and make less noise when clicking in out?

Then why does it feel so difference.

mercator

I can imagine a scenario where you:
- compare two shoes with identical fit (say the Sidi Dominator and Genius models),
- set up the pedals for similar float,
- clip the shoes in before the blindfolded rider puts their foot in them, have an assistant tighten the shoe
- then ensure the rider can't look at their feet while pedaling

I doubt you would prove much about relative efficiency but I think it could be done.

mercator

I don't think you can generalize about the float, but the noise is a function of the (usually) much stronger retention spring in road pedals.
The difference you are feeling is mostly in the shoes.

UnfilteredDregs

Bahahahahahahaaaa!!!! I like that cleats keep me attached to my bike when I'm having at it, hauling ass and such, hitting **** that would send my feet flying off the pedals...Good luck sprinting without cleats. or efficiently spinning when out of the saddle.

...and if you actually spin, you're pulling back and up, and over the top, of the pedal stroke...always.

69chevy

You just "Bahahahahahahed" me and agreed with what I said...

Seattle Forrest

I think if you did something like that (on a trainer) the rider wouldn't be able to tell which is which. And that's my point, I don't think road pedals are inherently better. Unless you need a specific float or can't get the right shoes in MTB or something. Otherwise both systems work well.

UnfilteredDregs

So, staying attached to one's bike, the ability to sprint, and actually spin are small benefits?

series1811

I currently use Shimano RT82 shoes and A600 pedals. It is an SPD system (2 hole). Both are specifically road use. I notice no difference between them and my 3 hole setup other than I can walk normally in my RT82 shoes (great for touring).

69chevy

Yes. You can sprint without cleats.

I don't know if you are aware, but there are studies on "pulling up" that found that even the most elite professional riders don't actually pull up on pedals and pulling up actually hinders the mechanics of pedalling.

That being said, I rather enjoy being attached to the pedals for the same reasons you do. But to say the benefits are more than small would be an exaggeration in my opinion.

https://www.radlabor.de/fileadmin/PDF...aefte_2008.pdf

"The major findings of this study are twofold. Firstly, shoe-pedal

interface did not influence the pedalling pattern during submaximalcycling. Secondly, cyclists could change their technique byactively pulling up during the recovery phase. However, doing

so impaired their mechanical efficiency."

UnfilteredDregs

It helps to actually have read the study:

"However, wearing clipless pedals could be advantageous in other cases, where the link between the foot and the pedal provided by the fixation could be necessary, e.g., during maximal cycling, cycling up hills, or any condition where maximal power is required. Indeed, Capmal and Vandewalle [2] have shown a greater power output during all-out sprints with toe-clips than without, while Hintzy et al. [8] reported a significant increase of the maximal values of force, velocity and power output when clipless pedals were used during all-out ergometer sprints. The cycling intensity chosen in the present study, corresponding to 60% of PMA, ensured that subjects remained in aerobic conditions. However, at this power output, it might be that cyclists did not need to use a possible pedalling technique related to the pull-up action when pedalling with clipless pedals. Therefore, it would be interesting to investigate in the future the effect of power output on the pedalling mechanics with particular focus on the possible pull-up action at higher power output."

69chevy

I did read it. Saying something "could be advantageous" doesn't mean it provides a huge benefit.

I am not arguing against clipless pedals.

I'm saying that they are great, but the performance gains are small when comparing to riding without them.

UnfilteredDregs

"Indeed, Capmal and Vandewalle [2] have shown a greater power output during all-out sprints with toe-clips than without, while Hintzy et al. [8] reported a significant increase of the maximal values of force, velocity and power output when clipless pedals were used"

I guess the word significant didn't register. Bottom line is they did a test at nominal levels. Of course if you're just cruising there ain't that much going on. feel free to continue to reinterpret the paper to fit your agenda.

69chevy

You do the same.

My "agenda" was answering the OP.

Road shoes aren't more efficient than MTB shoes.

Sprinting to the finish of a stage to take a jersey is probably .000000000000000001% of cycling. Having a benefit in that scenario still makes it a small benefit to cyclists considering you can still sprint without them.