JonnyHK 

We're getting WAAAAAY off topic here kids.

MOAR bike pics!!!!

redfooj

This guy is amazing. The voice of both the bicycling and automotive industry. And from his extensive experience concludes that Shimano is somehow more boring compared to Campagnolo.

Record derailleurs.... twice as soulful and exciting as Dura-ace!

Phlorida

Where did the great thread about Roberts new bicycle go?

rpenmanparker 

As excellent a summation of the situation as we will see.

rpenmanparker 

Coming back as soon as I get my Loctite. I will likely start a new thread with the wrap up pictures and story. Thanks.

Phlorida

Perfect, abandon this nonsense.

rpenmanparker 

Oh no, this one is the most fun I've had in quite a while. It just doesn't befit my excellent, if dangerous, new ride.

Campag4life

Thanks. Pretty much. Been my life's work and need to set the record straight for the maligned masses.
PS: not the derailleurs..rather the full groupset even though every single element of of SR makes DuraAce look like it belongs on an industrial grade tractor.
Its the Ginsu knives Shimano calls shift levers or the 41 brain trust calls brifters that separates Campy...DA shifters are kind of like an unwrapped BMW steering wheel with thumb tacks sticking out...lol.
As to stereotypes the uninformed cling to because all they understand are clichés like poor German quality, I have been riding both Campy and Shimano for decades and Italian Campy's quality is second to none..even with all the stigma of Italian design relative to reliability...same for all the BMW cars I have owned and seriously modified.

himespau 

Isn't it really Romanian Campy these days?

redfooj

Stereotypes don't sprout from nothing, they do have atleast a small grounding in reality. The Alfa was the worst car I've ever owned. And, against the grain, my current French one in same category and price class is superior to it in every way.

Those are both relatively very complex machines. Bicycles are beautifully simplistic. Scrutinizing 'quality' is a bit of an overkill when talking mid grade+ stuff from any of these manufacturers. Give me any Campag, Shimano, or even Suntour groupset from decades past and they'll all operate and last equally well. I too have a personal preference for Campag but it's mostly ergonomics.

Campag4life

I in fact agree with much you wrote. Fiat of course set the table in America for its poor quality and of course when then ran right, they were beautiful machines...from 124 Spider to X19. Indeed, stereotypes do develop for a reason as you say. And I too ride Campy because of shifter ergonomics...and owned most upper levels of Shimano along the way including DA9000 which ergonomically is far inferior to Ultrashift.

Where we part is your reference to bicycles as being simple. Sorry, but that's wrong. Otherwise, I would be making bike parts in my garage. Bicycles have a high level of engineering. Subject at hand in fact...Chinese carbon frames...manufacture and process control is in fact highly intricate. So we disagree vehemently there. What one is paying for in addition to the material is countless hours of engineering, FEA and testing at many levels to turn out dramatically different carbon frame designs with various levels of integration including the new Venge where all cables are routed through the handlebar, stem and frame. Bicycles are highly complex. As a guy who designed automobiles for a living, honestly they are no more complex when you reduce them down to their elemental parts...there are just more parts and more interactions and therefore statistically a higher probability of failure even though this tide can be controlled but only to a point. So your assertion that bicycles are simple really cuts to the fallacy that some and perhaps you may believe that Chinese carbon bikes are as reliable as Specialized bikes as an example. No not all Chinese carbon bikes will fail. Of course not. But Specialized spends copious dollars on R&D and testing for a reason because it comes right off the bottom line...they do it to not only produce the best possible bicycles when their engineers benchmark off of existing designs..but they test to ensure their products don't fail out in the field. I will tell you how precarious this line is even among top companies. Sometimes test regiments are not worse case relative to actual environmental conditions in the field. So production parts pass test at the factory and still fail out in the field. Because of the difficulty of predicting the future with testing to keep the public safe, most want the best possible company and reputation ensuring their safety out on the road...or at least I do because I ride every day.

Campag4life

You didn't understand the part I wrote about oversight which is the core tenant of reliability.
A Chinese manufacturing facility with the supervised on site representation of top company management will produce a great product. Manufacture can be decentralized and in fact quite common. This is demonstrated in world wide industry repeatedly everyday. The problem is when there isn't this oversight including the discipline in the design because the discipline isn't in place. Most products like Chinese frames in this thread are reverse engineered and benchmarked off a frame produced in the industry, sometimes of no particular pedigree...simple is better to keep tooling cost down. So the base design of a frame like this may or may be conducive to either performance or reliability. Introduce lack of due diligence in manufacture or say lot acceptance testing or best practices and this creates an environment which could create more failures. Not a guarantee of failures. The frames are tested at some level and no doubt there is some feedback from customers.

In fact if you really want to draw an analogy to the car industry, I will apply one relative to the outcry about comparing BMW and Japanese car reliability. The nay sayers against German so called quality just made a counter argument to Chinese frames. Why does Japan produce a more reliable car than Germany? Its because the engineering and manufacturing disciplines the Japanese employ create a more reliable product than the Germans. The same can be said of comparing top bicycle makers compared to no name guys who don't have the practices in place to produce the most reliable bike frames...no stretch to credulity.

Sy Reene

Toyota/Takata airbag recall comes to mind however.

kcjc

OP - how's the bike coming along and if finished, the final tally?

Wonder why the naysayers just can't start their own thread instead of forcing their biased opinion?

Campag4life

Takata supplies airbags industry wide. Toyota is only one complicit car company.
Largest recall in history.
But quite right...my point has been made and people make their individual choices.

Sorry to get antithetical to decision to purchase a Chinese carbon bike and back to Robert's build...

Campag4life

It started with an asked question. And point of correction, opinion doesn't have particular bias and comes down on the side of tradition...why companies who start small and build brand loyalty based upon reputation. Purchasing no name is more heretical.

rms13

Once again you sound like you are either pushing an agenda or ignorant. Brands like DengFu, HongFu, Workswell, Yoeleo, Baixiang, Light-Bicycle and Farsports are all building their own brands. They all have started small and built brand loyalty based upon reputation. And because they are actually trying to build brand, they do have a serious interest in quality, customer service and happy/repeat customers. Some if not all of them are actually starting to brand their equipment proudly not just sell unbranded frames, wheels and components. And to be honest, I had much better pre sale service from Jerry at Workswell and Wendy at Baixiang than I have had at any LBS....which is kind of sad. They are willing to answer dozens of questions to make a $450 sale, customize your order, provide updates along the way and follow up after sale to make sure you are happy. Most LBS I walk into won't give you the time of day unless they think you might spend at least $2000 on a new bike and even then they talk down to you and insult your intelligence.

Campag4life

Well not to accuse you of being ignorant by any means because that would be against forum policy...but you are guilty of conflating bike shop service with frame reliability which is pretty laughable. Yes, many bike shops do a poor job of rep-ing top brand bikes..
Hey, but your words, "Some if not all of them are actually starting to brand their equipment proudly not just sell unbranded frames, wheels and components."

Starting down this path is a great substitute for actually walking the walk for the long term...lol.

Can't make this stuff up and with that I'm out...this time for good and will watch Robert's build.

Glad you are happy with your Chinese bike.

Herbie53

What's this thread about?

calimtb

Campag4life has a bizarre Euro-festish. You'll never get through to him with facts.

Fact is, campagnolo components are inferior in function to Shimano components, at a far higher price.

BMW's, Audi's, Porsche's and Mercedes have had an inferior track record of reliability from day 1.

Of course, his Euro-fetish and overly active imagination will lead him to project his fears onto Chinese frames. Just let him invent some "statistics" out of thin air and live out his life in peace.

Kopsis

I think the correct term is "deathtrap" I've put thousands of trouble-free miles on my own deathtrap (an IP-306) and I'm totally satisfied with the purchase. I can't guarantee it won't asplode tomorrow, but I'd need to somehow get every motor vehicle, pedestrian, stray animal, and piece of road debris off the road before C3FF (Catastrophic Cheap Chinese Frame Failure) makes it to the top of the "threats to my riding safety" list.

BoSoxYacht

Shots Fired

rpenmanparker 

Ooookey-dokey! Well just to get back to the thread subject for a moment, here is a photo of the current state of affairs. As you can see, all is done except the BB, crank, and chain. So when the Loctite stuff arrives, it will just a short time until completion Thanks everyone for your interest in the project.

Wildrat

I like it. It has me thinking now about carbon.

mooder

This site won't let me correct my mistake. It's hard to write on a phone.