bwilli88 

Here the idea for all you who have succumbed to upgradeitis. Looking at the shimano lineup, what group has been considered the best.
May be you could list your preference for what you would like
i.g. many like the 7800 group over the 7900 because shifting is a bit smoother, maybe some like the 6600 over the 5800 because ...

JamesRL

You need to figure out why you want to upgrade. Going up to one newer group, or one group up isn't that big a change to get a big difference.

bwilli88 

Going from old Suntour 2x5 speed to 2x10 on a respaced steel frame and from DT shifters to Brifters. help me out
brifters are rebuildable,

You missed the point, it is not whether I need to upgrade or not, just rate groups one over the others.

Would you rather have 5800 over 6600?
Which Brifters are rebuildable, Which speed is easier to setup; 8 or 9 or 10.

dksix

Where is Kampong Cham ? Wiki had a great chart for the Shimano groupset hierarchy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shimano about halfway down the page. Upgrading requires being able to mount new cassettes to wheels and I don't have to knowledge to tell you which will work but at best you're looking at 10 speed compatibility with a hub thats more than a couple or so years old I think. Which leave you at 105/5700 or Tiagra/4700 unless you're planning new wheels with your group, then you get into your rear drop out spacing.

JamesRL

To go to a 2 x10, you will need to get new hubs, so a new wheel build. It might be cheaper to buy a newer bike.

Unless your original bike is a very high end frame, I'm not sure its worth it.

LesterOfPuppets

For Shimano stuff, I like 9-speed better. Cheaper replacement parts and interchangeable with Shimano MTB stuff in the rear.

The only other thing I watch for is cranks. 7700, 6500, and 5500 were the last good looking cranks.

Maelochs

I think he definitely needs a new rear wheel because the 2x5 is almost certainly a freewheel and cluster, not a freehub and cassette. Which would fit with his talk of respacing (opening up from 126 mm to 130 mm, I suppose. (I just went from DT to brifters on my dinosaur Cannondale but couldn't respace--aluminum frame. Stuck with seven cogs.))

I don't see why he couldn't switch to any group he wanted--they all run on 130-mm spacing (as far as I know.)

I think the question is money. I wouldn't go below Tiagra, though I have used Claris and Sora with good results--just think the Tiagra will last longer (most reviews and customer comments seem to agree.) Dura-Ace is lighter at the cost of durability, I hear--it is designed for racers who want the least weight and don't care about durability. I have read where Ultegra is orders of magnitude better than Tiagra, and others who say otherwise.

My philosophy is to buy as much hardware as I can afford, so I won't want to re-upgrade later. Ultegra, 105, or Tiagra should all work really well and last a long time ... buy the best you can afford.

I would scan Ebay, Amazon, etc for deals, and also ... I saw an 11-speed 105 front derailleur on Nashbar's Returned page for $15. Also a set of brand new 9-speed Sora 3400 brifters (two years out of date and with the useless thumb-downshift button) for $99. If you check all the bargain/closeout pages you could probably find Ultegra from a year or two ago for a great price.

mcours2006

I've done a couple of conversions/upgrades myself with steel frames. I have no regrets, but it would have been cheaper to purchase the whole bike on the used market. Unless the there's something about the frame that you really love it's not really worth it. I did it because I did love the frame.

JamesRL

My point is that it is always more expensive to buy a new group and upgrade than to buy a slightly used whole bike. It depends a lot on whether the OP is able to do all the work himself or has to get someone else. If he needs to buy tools, there is another expense as well.

mcours2006

You may also have to redish the wheels if the OLD is 126mm and you cold set to 130 for the modern hub.

FWIW, for my own upgrade/conversion I kept the classic quill stem and handlebars. You'll have to get an adapter if you go with the threadless type, and then new handlebars and the stem itself, further increasing the cost.

Your upgrade should be based on your budget, and whether you're going to go used or buy new parts. If you go new with a 4600 groupset+wheels+cockpit components+pedals+seat+post, you're looking at a minimum $650-700. Is this worth it? Buying used will be cheaper, obviously, but a bit more work on your part.

Maelochs

Though I love assembling bits into bikes, I have to second mcours2600 and JamesRL. Far and away the most economical way to upgrade is to buy used. You can get a whole bike for the price of third of the parts, and all of it is already where it belongs.

bwilli88 

You all missed the point.
If you were to upgrade, what group would you pick over another.
The example given was many like Dura ace 7800 over 7900 because it shifts smoother due to the 7800 runs non-aero and the 7900 runs aero under the bar tape.
Are there any other examples of this and how would any of you rate groups over other groups
I have Wheels and bottom brackets and many other bit and bobs, just looking at rating one group over others.

JamesRL

I don't think we did miss the point.

You want to take a 30 year or older frame and add $1400 of components, cold set the rear, rebuild the wheels. You'd be much better off buying a newer bike.

As for one group over another, everyone has personal preferences. The higher up the hierarchy, the lighter and generally the better. But as you mention there are exceptions. Anything you get today, even the low end, is going to be a big step up over whatever 5 speed Suntour you have now.

Are you building a race bike, a tourer, a gravel grinder? What is your base frame? That might help.

bwilli88 

OK, i have 2 frames; 1 a Fuji Stratos, sold only in Japan, was Shimano Sora 8 speed now early 105. Short wheel based bike I ride gravel, touring and with a wheel swap racing, and 2 a 74 Raleigh Grand prix, not a high end frame but rides real nice and is fun, respaced to 130 and now running early 105 8 speed.

I ride all sorts of rides everything from short/long gravel and almost Mtb to rides like cyclecross to riding road close to 100k. I average over 120k per week.

Picking and choosing on ebay and other places, one can get some decent groups built up and not spend $1400.

Think, the Fuji is in Cambodia and just buying a new bike is not that easy or cheap
and the Raleigh is in the USA and my current ride until I pack it away Jan 6th until I return sometime in 2017.

A decent Cannondale or Scott in Cambodia is 50% to 75% higher than the USA and a Giant is 25% higher.
Used bikes are 3 speed step thru market bikes, you rarely see a used road bike.

LesterOfPuppets

I'd probably go triple. Shimano 6503 or 5503.

JamesRL

Nothing wrong with 105. Ultegra or Dura Ace may be lighter and shift smoother, but isn't necessarily more durable, and if you use a bike the way you do, you may place emphasis on durability. Personally, if I wanted a bike to do everything, like gravel and touring, I'd get a triple.

bwilli88 

I run a 50/46 half step in Cambodia because it is flat and a 52/42 in the USA both with a 11-32 8 speed cassette. I think I might change to a 52/42/30 on the USA bike. But running anything greater than a 50/34 in Cambodia is overkill unless you live in the southern area where there are a few big hills.

JamesRL

A lot of derailleurs have a maximum cog size of 28, so that may limit you. The Dura Ace has a max of 28 for example.

RoadGuy

You mentioned something about wanting to know which brifters are rebuildable.

Technically, the only brifters that are rebuildable are the early 7 and 8 speed models with metal bodies. That would be RX100 and RSX 7 and 8 speed, and 105, and Ultegra 7 and 8 speed brifters. Looking on eBay you can find a couple of Sellers advertising that they can rebuild these specific brifters, AND you can find some new replacement parts sold in Shimano packaging for these models.

I would think that you would want to stick with components that you can find replacement parts for. 7 and 8 speed drivetrains can use the same derailleurs as 6, 7, and 8 speed drivetrains, and have use chains, and chainrings with the same spacing, making them more likely to be able to be found where replacement parts are scarce. 9,10, and 11 speed drivetrain parts are narrower, specialized, not interchangable, and not as durable as 7,8 speed parts.

If parts are hard for you to get where you're from, you'd be better off sticking to component systems that are more durable, and easier to source replacements for.

Maelochs

This is one way ... another would be to load up on 9-speed parts really cheap since the emphasis is shifting to 10 and 11.

Pick up a few complete component sets and a bunch of chains and you should be set for another 30 years.

Even so I expect 9-speed will be around--as the lowest spec--for a long time. I expect 10-speed to be around too--I think one reason Shimano went to electronic shifting is it couldn't just narrow the chains and cogs and easily squeeze another gear in there, so it needed a new gimmick to get riders to buy new stuff.

Of course in time that too will change. carbon-ceramic cogs or electromagnetic continuous-variable belt drives or whatever--progress never stops.

Personally I would buy Ultegra since I have never heard any complaints about performance or durability.

Sounds like you have a few fun weekends of wrenching and a lot of good riding in your future.

Homebrew01

Campagnolo Centaur or Athena

mcours2006

Maybe, but round here you can't always get what you want, but sometimes you get what you need.

Dan333SP

More to your original question, I think of the 10 speed Shimano groups, Dura Ace 7800 is generally considered the best for reliability, looks, and feel. I think complete 7800 groups in decent condition are still going for more than $500-600 on Ebay.

Barrettscv 

+1

Keep the vintage bike for fun rides and purchase a complete modern bike. You will be able to test ride the new mechanicals and will have a complete and compatible group of parts. Getting an older frame to accept newer components can be done, but the result is not always satisfactory.

Having said that, I would use Shimano 105 11-speed on a mediocre frame and Campagnolo Athena 11-speed on a collectible vintage bike. Both the Shimano 105 and the Campagnolo Athena can be purchased in Silver. This is visually complementary with alloy parts found on most vintage bikes.

The Shimano allows the use of an 11-32 cassette, the Athena is better looking IMO. I'll be putting Athena 11 speed on my 1993 Pinarello next month.

rms13

Really? Most people want to pretend 10 speed never happened. The 11 speed stuff shifts much better (especially front deraileur which is night and day), ergonomics are much better and even if you dont like the 4 arm crank, I haven't met anyone that likes the 10 speed crank styling more. If OP needs wheels may as well go to 5800 at least. Its cheap and you can get quality 11 speed wheels cheap especially if your not concerned about weight