Stratocaster

I'm new to the world of road cycling - I should have started doing this years ago!
I've lurked here for a while, and finally signed up not long ago.

Anyway, I've learned a lot from reading the various threads and posts. I've "learned" that the 105 group set is the starting point for "serious" cyclists (for those that prefer Shimano). Me, being a "quality at a good price point" snob, find the 105 to be great.

So I'm wondering: How does the current 11 speed 105 compare with, say, a 5 year old Dura Ace or Ultegra groupo?



You can compare anything from ergonomics, to ease of shifting, to weight, etc. I'm sort of wondering how technology with this aspect of bikes has changed in the past 5 years.


Thanks

rms13

Better in every way but slightly heavier

Stratocaster

Few words, but that says a lot!
The owner of a LBS told me that the 105 groupo is just as good as Ultegra...it just weighs a little more. He might have just been trying to sell me a bike, though.

rms13

I've had 11 speed 105 and Ultegra and wouldn't be able to tell the difference blind folded. I've also had 10 speed 105 and Ultegra and I could never go back

RollCNY

The new 105 5800 groupset is a hard act to top. I believe it was VeloNews that did an article looking at getting "best bang for the buck" by combining modern DuraAce, Ultegra, and 105 pieces for best weight, performance, and lowest price. IIRC, their pick was DA FD, Ultegra cassette and chain, and everything else 105.

redfooj

i have brand new 5800 105 fitted on a bike and dont understand the hoopla. works just like any other groupset ive had.

1 nice thing about it over the ultegra of that vintage is cleaner cable routing.

thin_concrete

Total newbie question, but what does the "5800" represent?

redfooj

Just internal designation , kinda like how porsche names its chassis 964 993 997 997 etc

RollCNY

Generation. Just in the past five or six years, you have had 105 5600, 105 5700, and 105 5800. They differ in number of cassette cogs, cable routing, brake actuation, and ergonomics, just to name a few things. Given my druthers, I would avoid 5700, and choose 5600 if I wanted 10 speed, and 5800 if I wanted eleven.

thin_concrete

Thank you both for clarifying that.

revchuck 

I've got both versions of ten speed Dura Ace and 5800 105. The first version of Dura Ace (7800, with the shift cables coming out the side of the shifter) is super sweet. Shimano should've just skipped the second version (7900, with the shift cables under the bar tape). 5800 shifts as nicely as, perhaps better than, 7800 and has a more comfortable shape for my hands. I'd definitely go with 5800.

shelbyfv

The new 105 comes in nicer finishes than Ultegra IMO. Shiny silver or black. I like 7800 DA better than 7900, it looks and works better.

Wingsprint

I recently spent a week in Arizona riding a new 5800 105 equipped rental and I was very impressed. It’s a great group. My Dean is full 7800 Dura Ace and my Lynskey is full 7900 Dura Ace. Shifting with the 105 is almost on par with the 7900. Very close. IMHO nothing can compare to the 7800 shifting. I prefer the ergonomics of the 7800 hoods, but that is a personal preference. Overall the only big difference I noticed was the brakes, the 105 lacked the modulation and stopping power of the both the 7800 and 7900. Not bad, but not in the same league as the DA. I got caught in two thunderstorms, so I had plenty of “testing” with the 105 brakes…

Overall the 5800 105 group is excellent!

rms13

Are you sure your rental actually had 5800 calipers and not Tektro or other third party? The 5800 calipers should have same or better power and modulation than 7800 or 7900 brakes

redfooj

I find compounds have as much , if not more , to do with it

Besides adjustment, surface, etc

StanSeven

I bet the pads were glazed, worn, or not adjusted properly. Glazing is sometimes a problem riding in constant heat over time. But there shouldn't be that much difference. It's hard to beat DA brakes but 105 isn't far behind.

series1811

Shimano 105 5800 works incredibly well. I was able to ride 2,500 miles this season without needing a tune up on my 105 equipped Cannondale. It still shifts flawlessly, and brakes predictably. Only two very minor things that didn't go well:

1) The grey plastic trim piece at the top of the levers is secured by two small screws. The screws vibrated loose and the trim piece fell off and broke during a ride. It didn't effect the function of the brake lever at all; I just had to replace the trim piece.

2) A lock nut vibrated loose on the front brake caliper. This is the lock nut that secures the pivot fixing bolts on either side of the brake (not to be confused with the center bolt that attaches the caliper to the fork). Fortunately, the nut is only there to keep the pivot bolt from backing out of the yoke that it is threaded into.

Both items were warrantied by Shimano, however, I didn't want to go through the inconvenience of leaving my bike in the shop for two weeks while they removed the part, sent it to Shimano and waited for a replacement. Shimano usually replaces the entire component rather than just small parts. Fortunately, I was able to pick up the trim piece and screws for $7, that was an easy fix. The fixing bolt lock nut (3.2 mm depth) was a different story. It turns out that the lock nut is an unusual thread size - M6 x 0.75 (metric fine thread). There are not very many places that carry a stainless steel M6 x 0.75 lock nut with 3.2mm depth out there. In fact, there was only one - a place in the UK that wanted $5 for the nut and $10 for shipping. Fastenal sells the same nut in standard steel for 9 cents. I had to have it sent from a store out of state to my local store, but I was able to get what I needed. Granted, it doesn't have the corrosion resistance, but I am not overly concerned with it. If it ever does rust, I have 19 more nuts to replace it with. Again, Shimano would have warrantied the parts, but I am impatient and ride a lot so it was worth the $9 I spent to keep my bike in service instead of in the shop.

So, 105 5800 users out there - check your fasteners periodically as there is the possibility for them to vibrate loose. I reassembled everything with blue locktite (medium strength) to avoid such problems in the future.

Smokehouse

Another 5800 owner/lover. I ran 5700 105 for 3 seasons and had the pleasure of going to 5800 105 this year...what a difference, it truly is a wonderful group set. I've never used a 6800, 9000 bike and probably never will, ignorance is bliss...but with that said, the 5800 is just superb.

CdaleNike21

Can you elaborate on the differences?

Wingsprint

I am 100% sure they were 5800 calipers that were properly adjusted and no glazing on the pads. Sorry, IMHO, the 105's brakes are no match for the 7800/7900's..

series1811

IIRC, the pads used on current 105/Ultegra/Dura Ace are all the same. That said, I would expect better braking from higher end components as you pointed out. The 5800's are crap when wet, but I can't think of any bike without disc brakes that isn't.

Smokehouse

No problem...but prepare yourself....I'm long winded.

First off, I've used the 5600, 5700 and now the 5800 group at length, thousands of miles on each group.

Brakes
-There was next to no difference between the 56 and 5700 brakes, neither were bad per se...but they weren't superb either. The 5800 is a completely different design, far better stopping power. I'm actually running the 6800 brakes because I wanted more "umph" and bought them well before the 5800 had hit the market.

*EDIT*...I'll say that I do not ride in the rain...so "wet braking" is a non issue for me. I do go to Kool Stop pads over stock by default.

Shifter
-I preferred the fit/finish of the 5700 over the 5600...they really improved lever throw and brake feel (they are also smaller). I'd say the "5800-vs-5700" debate is really 50/50...there's not a ton of difference between the two, they both are great.

Front shifting
-This is where the difference really start to show. The 5600 has very smooth lever throw, but the actual derailleur was only so-so. Where the action at your has was quick and decisive, the chain grab wasn't always the same. The 5700 took a GIANT step backwards here and by what I understand, it is primarily because they went to "under the bar tape" cable routing -vs- the 5600's external routing. The 5700 took considerable effort to shift Small-->big and I had to always hold the lever in spot for a second to make sure it grabbed. The 5800 fixed this and then some. Not only is the front shifting clean and crisp, the effort is FAR less than what it used to take...and the derailleur grabs so much faster, even suing my worn Praxis chainrings. This was a massive improvement.

Rear shifting
-Where the front was a huge improvement, the back isn't as large. When going from the 5600-->5700-->5800 the shifting has improved one step at a time. It is much easier to attain, and maintain that "sweet spot" rear shifting where the shift is not only quick, but almost dead silent too. With my 5700, I could never get it quite right...always dragging just a touch in shifts, I even tried a 5700 and 6700 cassette...it made no difference. The 5800 is a decisive "click" darn near 80% of the time. The 5800 also adds more derailleur positions do help eliminate cross chain rub.

gearing
-I cannot say this is a "5800 is better than 5700" thing...but so far, given my current setup, the 5800 has been much better. An 11-28 in a 5700/5800 is as follows:


11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-28 (5700)
11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25-28 (5800)

Using a 52/36 up front...I spend a vast majority of my time right in the middle of the rear gear...but...there a times when I had to do a transition from large-->small because I do not want to cross chain the 52. If you look at the difference in the 5700-vs-5800 cassette, the only difference is in the gears after 19. The 5700 has a 21-24-28 where the 5800 has 21-23-25-28. Those changes have allowed me to stay in the 52 more than I used to when the going gets tough...but not tough enough to switch to 36.


So...in the end, the 5800 package is just a much nicer overall set than the 5700. I've been very pleased with it.

RollCNY

As supplemental commentary to @Smokehouse, one of the negatives of 5700 was that it was the first 105 version with under tape shift cables, and placement of the cable had a direct impact on shifting performance. Too tight of a bend, to make the inside of the bar curves, caused a loss in performance. So how well a 5700 shifter shifts becomes dependent upon the skill of the person who cabled and taped it, more so than other groups.

Stratocaster

Wow, thanks for all the responses! As a happy owner of a bike with the 105 group set...it's good to know that I made a good choice.

ColaJacket

Art's Cyclery - Shimano: Where to spend your money

Long story short, here are my picks for the best value Shimano road components:

• Rear Derailleur: 105 5800
• Front Derailleur: Dura Ace 9000
• Shifters/Brake Levers: Dura Ace 9001 or 105 5800 depending on budget
• Cassette: Ultegra 6800
• Chain: Ultegra 6800
• Crankset: Ultegra 6800
• Brakeset: 105 5800

GH