Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Bike Stiffness. How To Tell?

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Bike Stiffness. How To Tell?

Old 11-04-15, 07:30 PM
  #1  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Bike Stiffness. How To Tell?

There is much talk about Bike Stiffness. When I am trying a bike, or riding a bike, how can I tell how stiff it is?
titani is offline  
Old 11-04-15, 07:35 PM
  #2  
ka maté ka maté ka ora
 
pdedes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: wessex
Posts: 4,423

Bikes: breezer venturi - red novo bosberg - red, pedal force cg1 - red, neuvation f-100 - da, devinci phantom - xt, miele piste - miche/campy, bianchi reparto corse sbx, concorde squadra tsx - da, miele team issue sl - ultegra

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
you're likely not strong enough for it to matter.
pdedes is offline  
Old 11-04-15, 07:36 PM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
rpenmanparker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682

Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6556 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times in 36 Posts
It is a lot like "The Emperor's New Clothes". Those that are worthy of a stiff bike can tell. If you can't tell, you are not worthy. The trick is to never admit it.
__________________
Robert

Originally Posted by LAJ
No matter where I go, here I am...
rpenmanparker is offline  
Old 11-04-15, 07:36 PM
  #4  
Speechless
 
RollCNY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Central NY
Posts: 8,842

Bikes: Felt Brougham, Lotus Prestige, Cinelli Xperience,

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 39 Times in 16 Posts
You can't. It is subjective, and has no unit of measure.

By the way, the more items that you compare before making a purchase, the more likely you are to be dissatisfied with your eventual choice.
RollCNY is offline  
Old 11-04-15, 07:38 PM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
dksix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: North East Tennessee
Posts: 1,620

Bikes: Basso Luguna, Fuji Nevada

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4261 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by RollCNY
By the way, the more items that you compare before making a purchase, the more likely you are to be dissatisfied with your eventual choice.

This could explain why my marriages keep getting shorter.
dksix is offline  
Old 11-04-15, 08:10 PM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: No. Central Ma. USA
Posts: 2,673

Bikes: 2013 Cannondale EVO DA; 09 Giant TCR Advanced SL; 07 Giant TCR Advanced

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by titani
There is much talk about Bike Stiffness. When I am trying a bike, or riding a bike, how can I tell how stiff it is?
Stiffness is completely irrelevant for most, so ignore the talk and ride the bike you're most comfortable on.
A friend of mine once remarked the thing he liked most about his bike was also the thing he hated the most, something like stiffness is great for races requiring quick accelerations, but it's not so good on those 3+ hour rides.
BarryJo is offline  
Old 11-04-15, 11:58 PM
  #7  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,517
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 276 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 3 Posts
Find a really big hill and stand up and mash all the way up
rms13 is offline  
Old 11-05-15, 12:04 AM
  #8  
cowboy, steel horse, etc
 
LesterOfPuppets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The hot spot.
Posts: 44,804

Bikes: everywhere

Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12637 Post(s)
Liked 7,529 Times in 3,990 Posts
Stand on one side of the bike, one hand on the bar and one on the saddle. Lean it away from you a bit and with the pedal in the down position press on it and note how far the BB shell moves off the CL. Maybe run string from axle to axle first as a gauge.

(Bikeshop bros are gonna love me for this.)
LesterOfPuppets is online now  
Old 11-05-15, 12:36 AM
  #9  
Senior Member
 
catgita's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 765

Bikes: Fitz randonneuse, Trek Superfly/AL, Tsunami SS, Bacchetta, HPV Speed Machine, Rans Screamer

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
The responses seem to assume a bike can't be too stiff. Not so. For example, touring bikes often feel dead when not loaded, disproportionate with the weight. Some racing style bikes also feel dead and unresponsive after an hour or so, in spite of light weight.

Super stiff often feels alluring and responsive in the parking lot, but it can really suck out on the open road. Your legs turn to lead and you struggle to stay on top of your gear where another bike may still feel eager to go even when you are dead tired.

On metal bikes (carbon bikes are too small for me), I look for some springiness when twisting between the bars and seat tube, but if it has an exaggerated shivering that stems from my nervous unfamiliarity, it is probably too flexy. I also look for a small amount of frame springiness when pressing on one pedal with the brakes locked (about as hard as I would under hard seated riding), but not to where it feels sloppy. The movement should feel linear in relation to force. If it feels dead stiff in every direction, it won't work for me.

Unfortunately, those tests are subjective and require personal experience.
catgita is offline  
Old 11-05-15, 05:04 AM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Earth
Posts: 372
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 127 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
How do you know of he isn't strong enough? This could be Sagan for all you know
Danny01 is offline  
Old 11-05-15, 07:38 AM
  #11  
Banned
 
BoSoxYacht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: take your time, enjoy the scenery, it will be there when you get to it
Posts: 7,281

Bikes: 07 IRO BFGB fixed-gear, 07 Pedal Force RS

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets
Stand on one side of the bike, one hand on the bar and one on the saddle. Lean it away from you a bit and with the pedal in the down position press on it and note how far the BB shell moves off the CL. Maybe run string from axle to axle first as a gauge.

(Bikeshop bros are gonna love me for this.)
I was waiting for some newb to write something like this. You should have waited for some fool to expose himself.
BoSoxYacht is offline  
Old 11-05-15, 10:01 AM
  #12  
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,936

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3571 Post(s)
Liked 3,368 Times in 1,916 Posts
"Stiffness" in a bike is difficult to quantify, and its benefit, or lack thereof, varies depending on the rider and where you ride. Heavy riders benefit most from a very stiff bike. Light riders suffer on stiff bikes, particularly on rough surfaces. At 145#, I find stiff bikes difficult to control on rough pavement.

So, don't take "stiffness" as the single arbiter of a good bike. Ride what works best for you, and let the marketing department worry about "stiffness."
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 11-05-15, 10:09 AM
  #13  
Administrator
 
BillyD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 32,902

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene '04; Bridgestone RB-1 '92

Mentioned: 325 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11894 Post(s)
Liked 6,492 Times in 3,418 Posts
Originally Posted by dksix
This could explain why my marriages keep getting shorter.
Or your avatar, it could be your avatar.
__________________
See, this is why we can't have nice things. - - smarkinson
Where else but the internet can a bunch of cyclists go and be the tough guy? - - jdon
BillyD is offline  
Old 11-05-15, 10:10 AM
  #14  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 4,770
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 630 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 369 Times in 206 Posts
Measure the deflection from an applied force
Elvo is offline  
Old 11-05-15, 10:15 AM
  #15  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,825
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 401 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by titani
There is much talk about Bike Stiffness. When I am trying a bike, or riding a bike, how can I tell how stiff it is?
By stiffness do you refer to BB flex? I have noticed that even in my two cheap bikes that the steel bike has a bit more flex when as @rms13 mentions you climb a hill out of the saddle. Particularly so if in a gear which gives you 75+ inches.
Inpd is offline  
Old 11-05-15, 10:15 AM
  #16  
Custom User Title
 
RPK79's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: SE MN
Posts: 11,239

Bikes: Fuji Roubaix Pro & Quintana Roo Kilo

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2863 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 31 Times in 14 Posts
Doesn't Park Tools have a stiffometer? Maybe go down to the local co-op and ask to borrow theirs.
RPK79 is offline  
Old 11-05-15, 10:20 AM
  #17  
Senior Member
 
PepeM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 6,861
Mentioned: 180 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2739 Post(s)
Liked 119 Times in 59 Posts
To how many watts does one have to dial it up to for it to matter?
PepeM is offline  
Old 11-05-15, 10:47 AM
  #18  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,036
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 175 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Sixteen posts on a thread about frame stiffness and nobody has even mentioned Jan Heine? What has this forum come to!
FrozenK is offline  
Old 11-05-15, 10:55 AM
  #19  
Senior Member
 
dcsix's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Southern California
Posts: 254

Bikes: 2011 Specialized Roubaix Comp SRAM Rival, 2008 LeMond Victoire Dura Ace, 1994 Santana Sovereign Tandem, 1986 Specialized Rockhopper Comp Shimano Deore, 1975 Raleigh Super Course Mark II

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Ride em. In the case of my now relatively old SL2 Roubaix frame, I did not appreciate how not "stiff" is until I rode my LeMond. As mentioned above, a hill will help you tell the difference.
dcsix is offline  
Old 11-05-15, 10:59 AM
  #20  
Interocitor Command
 
Doctor Morbius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The adult video section
Posts: 3,375

Bikes: 3 Road Bikes, 2 Hybrids

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 596 Post(s)
Liked 64 Times in 40 Posts
I wash my bikes in a special Viagra/detergent mix for extra stiffness.
Doctor Morbius is offline  
Old 11-08-15, 02:21 PM
  #21  
Senior Member
 
lsberrios1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Atlanta GA
Posts: 2,844

Bikes: '13 Spech Roubaix SL4 Expert

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 297 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
If you pedal hard while standing and your arms want to come off it means you've got a stiffy
lsberrios1 is offline  
Old 11-08-15, 04:22 PM
  #22  
Senior Member
 
Jarrett2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: DFW
Posts: 4,126

Bikes: Steel 1x's

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 632 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I love this thread already
Jarrett2 is offline  
Old 11-08-15, 04:27 PM
  #23  
RoadRash
 
VwFix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 165

Bikes: Santa Cruz Blur, Giordano Libero, Schwinn World Tour singel speed

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
One interesting thing I have discovered with very flexy carbon fork I had on my old bike was when using a magnet style speedo sensor the speed would drop when I did out of the saddle sprints due to the bowing of the frame.

I am curious if using a speed and cadence sensor can be used to determine flex by placing it in different locations on seat and chain stays.

Last edited by VwFix; 11-08-15 at 04:30 PM.
VwFix is offline  
Old 11-08-15, 04:49 PM
  #24  
Senior Member
 
Robius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 169

Bikes: Felt AR2 Di2

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 5 Posts
Pedal like you are running away from a black hole supernova and then you will tell.
Robius is offline  
Old 11-08-15, 04:57 PM
  #25  
Senior Member
 
adrien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 1,210

Bikes: Firefly custom Road, Ira Ryan custom road bike, Ira Ryan custom fixed gear

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by rms13
Find a really big hill and stand up and mash all the way up
At the risk of making this a useful thread, yes, do this. And listen / feel for brake rub, with the brakes adjusted to the same clearance.

Whether you want a stiffer bike is another question.
adrien is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.