banerjek

I've been cycling a long time and while I've had lots of weird things happen such as freehubs freezing and rims suddenly failing (definitely no fun), I've never had a chain go in the spokes -- until today. Not sure what happened today, but maybe something got bent or some debris went into the tranny.

The experience made me wonder why we worry so much about a chain in the spokes.

Here's the rub. By definition, you're in your lowest gear -- i.e. you're going slow. There was a lot of force on the pedals and the instant this happened, I knew something went wrong with the shift. Due to the low speed, pulling over in a couple feet was no biggie -- no noticeable damage, I give the shifter one click while I crank the wheel by hand and the chain jumps in one cog. I get back on the bike and successfully shift in and out of the bottom cog a few times while I continue riding. I may take a closer look this weekend.

While this is definitely a bad thing, I'm wondering if we don't make the safety issue a bigger deal that it really is. I could have had a car next to or right behind me but because of the low speed, I think the risk of being hit would be minimal. Solo crash also seems unlikely and would barely be more serious than falling over after failing to clip out. This is way different than having something freeze up or fail on you when you're moving at speed.

fietsbob

Chain will notch the softer metal Of the spokes , then the spoke will eventually fail ,

+It is higher Tensioned than a NDS Spoke after all ..

No team support behind you, with a spare wheel is there.. ?

Shimagnolo

I was on a mountain bike going to work one morning when it happened to me.
There was a short, steep hill with a stop sign at the bottom, then a climb up from the stop sign.
I was moving pretty fast down the hill, slowly pedaling to downshift to the large cog in preparation for the climb after the stop.
The chain dropped into the spokes, locked up the rear wheel, and I screeched to a stop.
The tire had a flat spot, some spokes were broken, and others were badly mangled.
I had to walk back home, since there was no way to dig the chain out of there on the road.

rmfnla

The real danger is when the RD goes into the spokes...

rpenmanparker 

Also if any spokes got bent. the wheel is likely way out of true. If you see any notches or bends at all, each of those spokes has to be replaced.

trailangel

Yes, but what is the real danger of spokes going into a chain. Did the spokes jump off the wheel by themselves?... or was there a gremlin that did it.

Did a spoke go into the chain and continue completely around the drive train.. I am trying to picture this.

indyfabz

Been there. Done that on my touring bike. Bent the rear hanger over the winter and neglected to get it fixed right away. Spring came around and I went out for a ride. Decided to climb a hill to see how low the granny gear felt, having never used the lowest gear before. The RD cage shifted into the spokes and asploded into a bunch of pieces. As soon as I heard the sound I knew what had happened. Came back down the hill and skateboarded home several miles. The hanger was a twisted mess, but the LBS where I bought the bike was able to twist it back into shape.

dalava

Same here... I am not getting this yet.

Wanderer

Soooooo, how did the dork disc fare?

banerjek

Fortunately, this wheel is a complete piece of crap. Brake track is worn to the point I should probably pitch it now though I'll probably try to get through the winter. Spokes actually look OK and wheel is still in true. Chain seems fine too. The instant I felt the shift fail, I stopped immediately. Come to think of it, I'm surprised no spokes got damaged.

No dork disc -- that's why I was wondering why the protection is needed...

TrojanHorse

If you were a more advanced rider who believed in cross chaining, you may be going much faster when you shift into the spokes.

RoadGuy

Can you explain how you know that you shifted the chain into the spokes, and then was able to shift up one gear and peddle the chain back out.

When the chain is over-shifted into the spokes it drops down behind the cog, and jams between the cog and the spokes when there isn't a dork disk.

Can you explain how the chain unjammed itself, and climbed up and out from behind the low gear and back up onto the gears?

If the chain dropped behind the low gear and into the spokes, there would be damaged spokes. No doubt about it. Maybe what you felt was a worn chain skipping, or an intermittent freewheel/freehub malfunction, and not an overshift with the chain going into the spokes.

Brian Ratliff

Banerjek, check your derailleur hanger. If a bike that has never had a problem overshifting into the spokes, all of the sudden has it start happening, it's usually because the hanger is bent inward.

As to the safety stuff; any malfunction can turn into something potentially serious on a situational basis. But the vast majority of malfunctions merely result in the ride coming to an inconvenient halt.

wphamilton

Bannerjek said that he stopped in a couple of feet. About a third of the turn of a wheel, or less. So perhaps there wasn't time and turning enough to damage his spokes.

Apparently he stopped and put the chain back manually, so I'm sure that he didn't misdiagnose the chain fall off wheel-side.

RPK79

This except it was a road bike and I was going up a hill. I destroyed $7 worth of spokes and had to spend an evening replacing them. Still not sure what caused it. I think I was under too much load when I shifted and the wheel/frame was flexing just enough to cause an overshift.

I guess I was out a tire too, but it was already showing enough wear that I had one in transit from Nashbar.

banerjek

I released the force the instant I felt the chain slip and stopped almost instantly -- I did not wait for the wheel to stop me. Since the chain hadn't been forced in, I was able to lift the rear wheel, give it a gentle turn and it hopped back over. I may have touched the chain to pull it out a bit (I don't remember) but I do know that no force was necessary.

I'll check the hanger. I was in a washout crash not too long ago that may have tweaked it.

Rowan

That will teach you to burn the dork disc off your wheel

milkbaby

Yeah, always worth checking the hanger after a crash, especially any time you land on the drive side. Even without crashing, good to every now and then check that your RD isn't going into the spokes if you've ever left your bike unattended where somebody or some animal could've knocked into it or knocked it over.

rmfnla

The funny thing is apparently the OP still hasn't noticed that he got it backwards...

banerjek

I did the instant I posted, but it's impossible to edit titles after the fact. Yeah, the mods can do that but it seemed pointless to do anything given the number of grammar, spelling, and logic challenged posts we're used to on BF.

rmfnla

79pmooney

banerjek, a question: (I am assuming you have a conventionally spoked wheel with metal spokes that cross on the drive side. If not, ignore this.) Which of the drive side spokes are "pulling" spokes, inside or outside? In other words which spokes come from the top of the hub flange and project back, the spokes on the inside of the hub flange with the heads outside or outside spokes with their heads inside?

I ask this because in the old days, some of us always made it a point to lace our wheels with the inside spokes pulling as this tended to kick a dropped chain out whereas an outside pulling spoke tended to suck the chain in, causing considerably more damage, even at low speeds. I have posted this old wisdom recently and been told several times that is not correct now. So I am compiling data and this event you had is an early data point (and may well cause me to change my wheel building habits).

Ben

banerjek

Pulling spokes on this wheel are on the inside of the hub flange with the heads outside.

rpenmanparker 

My understanding of the rationale that used to be used is quite different. Supposedly the trailing or pulling spokes are under tension, and so they don't bulge under power. The leading or pushing spokes may bulge slightly. To keep the leading spokes from bulging out into the field of the chain, you cross the trailing spoke over it high up or last. That would mean that the trailing spoke should be inside with the head outside. Only on the last cross would it move to the outside over the leading spoke to keep it under control.

But there was another companion rationale which I don't remember for doing it just the opposite.

I and most other folks now think this is all hogwash. Sheldon Brown makes it quite clear it doesn't matter which spokes, leading or trailing, are head out and which are heads in. If you throw your chain into the spokes, expect damage. That's the bottom line.

79pmooney

Next question - what kind of hub is it? (Ie, 9-speed, 10-speed, etc.) And chain?

Funny, I heard of the tendency of spokes to suck in or reject the chain from Sheldon Brown's mouth 39 years ago. (He used to visit our shop.) I have observed the damage from dropped chains and noted the spoke inside-or-outside and seen a clear trend to minimal damage with inside pulling and maximal damage with outside pulling. Of course, with enough either speed or leg power inside pulling can also be a disaster. I have also dropped my share of chains and always had little enough damage to be able to jury rig and ride home (always on inside pulling, sometimes at speed). But I have yet to do it with anything newer than 7-speed FW which is why I am asking.

Banerjek's experience follows the trend of minimal damage dropping chains with inside pulling spokes.

Ben