What do you consider cross chaining?
12-11-15, 07:03 PM
#76
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I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that you've been riding a geared bike for a very long time (e.g., more than 20 years) and you probably started on a 5- or 6-speed cluster, right?
The whole concept of what cross-chaining is -- and, perhaps even more importantly, why it's important not to do it -- is very different for people who became serious cyclists in the 1960s/70s/80s compared to people whose only experience with a geared bike is on a 9-, 10-, or 11-speed.
On a typical road bike from, say, 1985, with 52/42 chainrings and a 6- or 7-speed freewheel, OP has the right idea: The middle of the cluster can be shared, but as soon as the chainline gets slightly skewed, drivetrain efficiency and parts life can indeed become compromised.
But on a typical roadbike from 2015 with 50/34 chainrings and a 10- or 11-speed cassette, the world's yer oyster: You can almost get away with the Big/big or Small/small combinations, and you can definitely ride to your heart's content in other combinations with non-straight chainlines and you won't compromise performance nor parts life.
People can call it "cross-chaining" all they want, but unless they can define why it's ostensibly bad, it's a meaningless term. Most folks I hear chortling about how "it's bad to cross-chain!" are just spewing an anachronistic bogeyman.
The whole concept of what cross-chaining is -- and, perhaps even more importantly, why it's important not to do it -- is very different for people who became serious cyclists in the 1960s/70s/80s compared to people whose only experience with a geared bike is on a 9-, 10-, or 11-speed.
On a typical road bike from, say, 1985, with 52/42 chainrings and a 6- or 7-speed freewheel, OP has the right idea: The middle of the cluster can be shared, but as soon as the chainline gets slightly skewed, drivetrain efficiency and parts life can indeed become compromised.
But on a typical roadbike from 2015 with 50/34 chainrings and a 10- or 11-speed cassette, the world's yer oyster: You can almost get away with the Big/big or Small/small combinations, and you can definitely ride to your heart's content in other combinations with non-straight chainlines and you won't compromise performance nor parts life.
People can call it "cross-chaining" all they want, but unless they can define why it's ostensibly bad, it's a meaningless term. Most folks I hear chortling about how "it's bad to cross-chain!" are just spewing an anachronistic bogeyman.
"Try to avoid the gears that make the chain cross over at an extreme angle. These "criss-cross" gears are bad for the chain and sprockets. Especially bad is to combine the inside (small) front sprocket with the outside (small) rear sprocket. This noisy, inefficient gear causes the chain to wear out prematurely."
12-11-15, 09:03 PM
#77
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Stud? Hardly. I just rode a lot. A few years ago, 8k miles wasn't an unusual year. I didn't have anything else to do.
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12-11-15, 10:17 PM
#78
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I can understand cross chaining when racing, if you don't have the time for a double shift, but why do it when JRA?
12-12-15, 10:13 AM
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12-13-15, 01:11 PM
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Actually I have two bikes w/ 10-speed & 50/34 chainrings, and one bike w/ 7-speed & 53/39 chainrings...so while a lot of my diatribe (above) was based on either observations of the cyclists I coach every Spring, or discussions w/ my fellow coaches (some of whom are most definitely Old School), a lot of it was also based on personal, empirical evidence. Cross-chaining is a complete non-issue on the two modern bikes, but a serious issue to be avoided at all costs on the older bike. And the bona fide Old Guys are way more paranoid about cross-chaining than the folks who only started cycling in the past ~15 years.
[Edit: And none of them seem to truly understand why cross-chaining -- regardless of your chain or chainring size -- can be bad. It has nothing to do with the equipment.]
[Edit: And none of them seem to truly understand why cross-chaining -- regardless of your chain or chainring size -- can be bad. It has nothing to do with the equipment.]
Last edited by Bob Ross; 12-13-15 at 01:17 PM.
12-13-15, 01:36 PM
#82
Interocitor Command
12-13-15, 01:44 PM
#83
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The more the chain is far from straight, the side plates rub more - this increases friction and wear (don't know if the latter is significant though).
12-13-15, 06:10 PM
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I've heard that the angle of departure on compact double cranks is well within specs of the chain in every single combination possible. Something like 3deg allowable and max 1.06 deg departure in worst case. I don't have the numbers off hand. But from them I believe there is no such thing as cross chaining on modern equipment. Just use it and forget about it.
Sorry Rpenbarker, I Do big/little or little/big as needed as do many others.
Wut? Di2 has auto trim. I desire, I click and things change. Front Der cage never touches the chain except when it is actively moving it from one chainring to the other. Modern 10 and 11 speed chain is more than able to cover the chain line angles seen.
it's always interesting to hear you Shimano boys talk about this, and then disregard Yaw Front Derailleurs from SRAM. What a fun thread. Last edited by Vicegrip; 12-13-15 at 06:13 PM.
12-13-15, 06:57 PM
#85
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On modern 10 spd bike no such thing as cross chaining other than it is not the best choice. I ride ultegra 6700 and dura ace 7800 with a compact and std double. All gears are fair game mostly I need to be able to use all the 10 rear for the compact on the big ring. I would not live in the big-big but nothing wrong with using it to avoid dropping to small ring for a while. The small small is not the best but in my case it actually cause a rub on the front ring with the std double. I can ride it fine in the small small but if I am in that ring I might as well just jump to the big.
The moral is that cross chaining is a non-issue on modern road 10 spd equipment. My chains last 5000 miles with no real stretch so cross chain all you want it would make any difference.
The moral is that cross chaining is a non-issue on modern road 10 spd equipment. My chains last 5000 miles with no real stretch so cross chain all you want it would make any difference.
12-13-15, 07:15 PM
#86
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If it isn't rattling it isn't cross chained.
With my setup I can adjust all of the noise out on one end (Large Large, or Small Small) but not both simultaneously. (or at least I haven't had the patience to play with it long enough to tweak that adjustment out)
At first I had it set up for noiseless large large which is handy for topping the steep crest of a hill. As I got strong enough to generate enough torque standing that became less of an issue.
It's now set up to be noiseless small small
I frequently ride a route with rollers on steroids and being able to spin out the small ring at 20+ on the downhill eliminates the need for a double shift under potentially high torque when the next uphill gets brutal rather suddenly.
With my setup I can adjust all of the noise out on one end (Large Large, or Small Small) but not both simultaneously. (or at least I haven't had the patience to play with it long enough to tweak that adjustment out)
At first I had it set up for noiseless large large which is handy for topping the steep crest of a hill. As I got strong enough to generate enough torque standing that became less of an issue.
It's now set up to be noiseless small small
I frequently ride a route with rollers on steroids and being able to spin out the small ring at 20+ on the downhill eliminates the need for a double shift under potentially high torque when the next uphill gets brutal rather suddenly.
12-13-15, 07:22 PM
#87
Interocitor Command
- Cross chaining generates extra friction
- Friction generates heat
- Heat contributes to global warming
12-14-15, 06:20 AM
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