svtmike

On sale the Vittorias are easy to find at $38 each -- twice the price of the Fortes, not 3-4.

You are right, I am extrapolating a bit. But even at that there are two different Forte Pro+ tire models with completely different constructions. They are definitely more similar in class to the GP4000S (120 tpi vs 110 for the foldable).

colnago62

It is very hard to make an absolute statement about a tire's flat resistance based on personal experience. Different areas of the country have different road quality. People also have different ride experiences; some ride in groups that point out hazards, some don't. Also, solo vs group riding can have an impact.

Urymoto

23 is done. Nobody rides that anymore. Forget it. Just look at what the tour is using. Close this thread!
It's dead. Dead I say!

noodle soup

no one here rides the tour.

Doge

"The science is settled." That pretty much proves you are right.

A light 23 (say Veloflex Record 22) will be faster for an uphill smooth pavement TT than a light 25 - all in, meaning rim and tires.

Urymoto

Nobody is stopping you from riding slower, more puncture prone and less comfy tires. Who cares if nobody rides the tour. They know what they are doing.

Urymoto

ride whatever you like.

Doge

You are funny. I was becoming an EE then just got hired to do secret magnetic stuff and never became one. That was good because it was starting to get real hard (80s and I was with the boat people in class). I tend to agree with you from the standpoint of how smarts are measured by people that care. So anyway after hours in our secret lab and on weekends we used to sneak in bike parts and test all kinds of things. We had test equipment for the B2 put together with bike parts. The quick release is a very useful tool. We found Epoxylite 6203 was both great for bonding brake pads to metal heat sinks on the bike and for tests - and then holding space shuttle parts together. We found Permecel Kapton 222 tape (polyimide) was both great for insulating coils and the best rim tape ever (still is). We use Nomex for coils and also tire casing boots. At that time Continental tires were cotton casing and since they use polyimide casing which is I think a great all around material.

D1andonlyDman

I paid less than $12 for the Forte Pro+ on black Friday - Actually $11.40 to be exact. Pretty sure that $38 is at least 3 times that much. And the Forte Pro+ tires that both Lazyass and I were referring to are the 120 TPI folding bead tires. In any case, the Vittorias are normally $50 tires, and the Forte Pro+ are normally a $16-19 tire. It's still around 3x as much. For a more accurate comparison, the Pro+ are nearly identical tires to the Vittoria Rubino Pros in terms of construction and ride characteristics. Which are fairly easily found for $25-30, but which is still twice as much as the recent sale price on the Forte Pro+.

In any case, thank you for acknowledging that you've never actually ridden the tires you are dissing, and so we can consign your opinion to being just another uninformed one.

Doge

I'm kinda new to this section of the forum, but I thought the thread was about who's smartest. What has price got to do with anything?

svtmike

It's important for people hoping to find the silk purse in the sow's ear section of Performance and Nashbar.

svtmike

I was comparing $38 to $17 -- but your maths are also correct.

My opinion is not completely uninformed, but I will admit that I am not going to waste $34 and potential time with flats on the side of the road in the interest of finding out for sure.

D1andonlyDman

You're entitled to make up your own mind however you choose to, but I only recommend those Forte Pro+ tires because I ride them, and find them to be very good tires and a superb value - both at their typical prices, and at the prices they can be gotten at on Perfermance's best sales. Given that you've never ridden them, perhaps you shouldn't be dissing them so aggressively. They are one of the most flat-resistant tires I've ever ridden, and they're relatively long-lived as well. What they are not, is as supple as the best $50 tires I've ridden. But since I ride a lot, and it's strictly for fitness and for transportation, and I have 5 different road bikes to put tires on, I'm not looking to get the biggest handling and acceleration advantage while in a peloton, and paying $80 for a set of tires that will wear out quickly is not my personal preference, when I can pay $25 for a good set of tires that last several thousand miles. I've tried dozens of different tires, and the Forte Pro+ are not the absolute best, but they are among the better ones, and they are far and away the least expensive amongst the better tires I've ridden. Your entire critique of them smacks of uninformed arrogance. Lots of companies make good tires, and lots of companies make cheap crap tires - often the same companies do both. The Forte Pro+ tires happen to be good tires that are very inexpensive relative to other good tires, thus making them superb relative values when bought at good prices. That's all I ever claimed for them. I don't go around making absolute pronouncements good or bad, about products that I don't personally have experience with. You might try that some time.

BTW, back to the subject of this thread: I tend to ride 23mm tires up front, and 25mm tires in the rear. The Forte Pro+ tires are available in both sizes, but more colors in the 23mm size, and the 25mm have been in and out of stock at the best prices, whereas the 23mm ones have been available all along, and in a range of colors.

Lazyass

Now, I'm not going to lie and claim I've had the Vittoria's just to help my argument. Not that anyone here ever does that of course. I would like to try them someday. But I've researched enough about them to know that no one will convince me they will last near as long at the Forte nor have as good puncture protection with the thin casing they have. From the reviews I've read the general consensus seems to be that the flat protection of those tires isn't really very high up in the chain.

ErichVonCartman

Have no clue what your point is or what you are trying to say. I was just telling us how us EE's are the smartest in the school. Just because we are capable of learning everything, does not actually mean we KNOW everything.

We EE's also tend to be the most laziest people ever. So don't expect me to take the time to try to understand you.

colnago62

I have ridden both. I have Vittoria EVOs on my carbon wheels and the Forte Pro+ on a pair of training wheels I use as backups. I haven't used the wheelset enough to wear the tires out yet, but for my needs the Fortes have been fine. These wheels have been used mostly for solo mileage in the winter. The Vittoria tires ride much better than the Performance tires. Road conditions in the Seattle area are not bad. There is not a lot of debris on the roads compared to other places I have seen, such that I have not had a flat issue with any tires.

ErichVonCartman

I value all opinions. To me, each one is a data point... and when it comes to the Vitt Corsas Evo, every single data point I have read about them says they are THE or one of the best rolling tires ever. There will be people that complain about the Vitt's toughness, and those who complain they are over priced, but I have never read one complaint about how they roll or how they ride.

wphamilton

I just today put on some Vittoria Rubino Pro tires @ $21 each not so much more than the Forte Pro's I think. No clue how long they'll last but the casing is thin compared to my usual tires (Forte Prima, Strada etc). I'll let you know, but I'm on the other bike mostly until Spring

23's btw because the available 25's were way more expensive, more than double in some colors.

noodle soup

I use 25mm Michelin Pro4 endurance tires because I feel that they are a great comprise between comfort/durability/wear/cost.

Do you approve?

ErichVonCartman

NO! That CAN'T BE! You found the same tire model for cheaper in the 23mm version than the 25mm version??? I learned from here on this Forum THEY ARE SUPPOSE TO BE THE SAME PRICE! You must too must be very dumb.

I learn a lot on the Forums!

D1andonlyDman

As I said, I ride the Forte Pro+, and I ride the Vittoria Rubino Pros. I consider them to be equivalent tires, and very similar to one another, and they are basically the two tires I ride by far the most. The lowest price I ever paid for Rubino Pros is $17.50, the lowest price I ever paid for the Forte Pro+ is $11.40. If there's any difference at all, it would be that the Vittorias are slightly more supple, and the Forte Pro+ are slightly longer lasting. I've also not ever seen the Forte Pro+ available in yellow, whereas the Vittorias are.

wphamilton

My wife opined that probably no one wants that particular color and shade on their bike, hence the low price. While she may have a point, and a casual look at my bike would tend to bear that out, I took the opportunity to impress the wife with my knowledge and smarts, as we all tend to do from time to time. I explained that while she was right that it was a matter of fashion, it was the 2mm smaller tires that have fallen in fashion favor. Due to the 2mm wider tire now being faster according to conventional wisdom. And I do need some excuse for the disturbing discordant color since none of us, myself included wish to be thought of as cheap by their own wives.

Lazyass

I was talking about the Vittoria Corsa Evo's. When svtmike said the Forte was a sh***y tire and carrying on about flats, he said the Evo's were his favorite tire. Which is a poor choice of tire if you have issues with flats. I may buy the Rubino Pro's for one of my bikes and see how they are.

jtaylor996

I just ordered a set of GP4000SII from merlin cycles with free tubes and shipping for just $79 in 25mm. They were $74 for the 23mm size.

wphamilton

I rolled 30 feet and had to stop and look down to make sure everything was all right, they felt that different. If the Forte Pro+ is similar to that seriously I'll be looking for the next big sale. Maybe even find some in 25 size, slave to fashion that I am.