shoota 

Been dealing with low back pain since I first started riding. I haven't been able to get rid of it no matter what I've done. I've tried different sized bikes, different fits, pro fits, handlebars all over the place, nothing has helped EXCEPT for keeping the watts low. Been to the docs and they say there's nothing structurally wrong. So I figure if I can narrow down exactly what is hurting I may be able to work backwards from there and find a solution.
The pain is pretty much dead center in the circle "area where most back pain occurs" in this pic:



It's localized very low and not much outside the width of the spine. I'm just looking for comments and thoughts or personal experiences so I can continue my research before I go see more doctors/chiros. Thanks!

qcpmsame 

Sounds like a disk problem, maybe lower disks, say between L3 and L5/S1. See a good neurosurgeon, even if you want to totally avoid cutting. An MRI to start with and go from there. I had the nerve block shots, 2 series, both were worthless for my injury. Some people find them helpful, and is quickly done as an outpatient. Mine was caused by a spinal compression in 1989, at work. The WC insurance people hung me out to dry, basically said I was faking everything, and wouldn't agree to anything beyond pain killers. I ended up sending them packing, signed off on their responsibility, and paid the cost myself. It was actually worth the expense, 100%, the WC was a total joke and frankly abusive towards me. Florida laws are very anti-injured and pro-business.

I had two of the fasciectomies(sp) a disk clean up, both of which failed quickly. Ended up having a 2 level PLIF (vertebral fusion) to take care of things, completely. Kind of extreme, but I truly needed the surgery. You might need some type of PT, and exercises to strengthen the muscles supporting the entire spine. Seeing a doctor would be first, lots of good, and lots of strange/poor, information and cures out there. You can get a whole bunch of ideas here, but a medical degree from Google School of Medicine is worth what they paid for it.

Bill

shoota 

Man sorry to hear about your struggles Bill, I feel for you, really. But glad it's taken care of now. MY MRI did show a little disc degeneration but nothing out of the ordinary. I really feel like this is muscle related. Now whether there is something structural affecting the muscle or not I don't know. I do have a slight bend in my spine (scoliosis) but again, it's not terrible and the doc said he didn't think it should be having any effect on me. I'm beginning to think I'm just put together wrong for cycling.

rm -rf

I get lower back pain if I'm pushing hard at a low cadence on very steep climbs. Otherwise, I'm normally spinning at a high cadence with low to medium force on the pedals.

Last year, I wanted to do winter core exercises, so I got Tom Daniel's Core Advantage book, co-written with an experienced bike trainer/therapist.

The first part of the book discusses the theory of cycling muscles and ligaments, then has programs of bike specific stretching and core exercises that don't need any equipment other than a floor mat and a doorway.

There's a couple of pages on spinal disk injuries, but the concentration is on muscle overuse.

From the lower pack pain discussion:
They have a few videos of some of the book's exercises.

andr0id

I just bought an ebook called Hip Neutral that looks very promising at correcting hip issues also.

shoota 

The worst I've had it was when my FD stopped working and I had to do an entire ride climbing in the 53T at about 50rpm. That night my back spasmed so hard I couldn't walk. That being said I've tried the high cadence thing (90+) for a while now since that is very common advice and it isn't helping. Thanks for the book suggestion. How is your back after following that core plan?

rm -rf

Well, I'm not very good at sticking with exercise plans, either this or riding the bike on my trainer. I'm much better and way more consistent at regularly riding outside! My back is usually fine, so I don't need to do anything to fix it. I had more shoulder soreness than back pain, but an adjusted bike fitting has helped my shoulders a lot.

When I did do the Core Advantage sets, I did feel good. I think they work.

shoota 

Thanks. Ordered the book, here goes nothing

TheKillerPenguin

Does this happen at all times during a ride or only after a period of time? If it's after an hour or two it really could just be core weakness.

If your position is too cramped (seat too far forward or stem too short) you may be putting pressure on your lower back by forcing it to curve. The lower wattage thing may make sense when taking this into consideration because your muscles aren't firing as hard in a position that may be physiologically awkward. I do not think it would mean your position is too upright as if this were the case I would assume your back pain would also be accompanied by serious taint unpleasantness.

JohnJ80

Get your Doc to give you a referral to a good physical therapists. They know more about this than do the docs.

Could be disc, could be facet (sp?) joint on the vertebrae, (I'm battling that right now), could be muscle strain, could be a sprain.

The smart thing to do before you start exercising it is to figure out what it is. Otherwise, if it is an injury, you could just be making it worse.

J.

shoota 

Generally speaking it happens every hard ride, the severity of it depends on the watts. But for the most part it takes an or so for the pain to start kicking in. Along with the stem being high and low I've also tried various lengths, so that probably isn't it.

The MRI doc actually did offer to give me a prescription to a local sports injury PT place. Maybe I should call him back and get that after all. I'm just not sure about the $$$ part of it ya know?

JohnJ80

I hear you. Only you can decide how much the pain in your back is worth to you. That said, when this stuff turns into a chronic problem, it's a lot more expensive and takes a lot longer to resolve. Been there, done that.

Generally, PT is pretty cost effective way of getting through to a solution. A PT appointment probably costs less than a prescription and it will get you moving towards resolution a lot faster in my experience. If you are serious about your sports and your aging, then get to know a good PT and don't be afraid to use them.

Also, most PT organizations are uses to this problem. I don't think in most cases you even need to have a physician's referral. Call them up and talk to them about the money and the plan.

J.

Gyrine

It doesn't sound like any medical/structural problem. However it is clear that your lower back is being strained beyond what it is capable of and may be because other muscles are not doing their job. Re cycling, lower back issues are almost always caused by weak gluts, hams, and calfs - the so-called back chain. Especially if you have a proper bike fit and riding position. So, when you work your core, focus especially on building strong gluts by using weights or weight machines at the gym - get some help with designing appropriate moves. Stretch after your workout by finding a bar or chair or stringing an elastic band and bend over it deeply, not at the waist but at the hips. Place your body at the bar just above your privates and bend over and feel your hips move. After a few weeks, hold a weight plate to your chest while doing this. Good luck.

shoota 

Thanks, that's a good idea.

Thanks I'll look into that.

theraggyone

I used to get bad back pain in that spot, tried loads of stuff to cure it. I eventually dropped my saddle height about 1cm and it completely went away.i think I was slightly over extending my legs especially under hard effort which caused my hips to rock and my lower back to ache.

PaulRivers

One thing that helped me a lot at first was doing the Limber 11, a stretching/warmup routine for weight lifting that loosened up and stretched the hips:
Limber 11: The Only Lower-Body Warm-Up You'll Ever Need!

Like the other posters have said, this is often caused by the interaction of muscles around the hip, some of which are not working, or not flexible enough, etc. Your lower back shouldn't be getting the strain, but it is, so it's ending up in pain because it's trying to compensate for other muscles that aren't working (or are restricted by being inflexible).

Unlike generic doctors or chiropractors, a Physical Therapist is trained specifically to look at these kind of problems. That's their job. You have the same problem with PT's as anyone else - quality can vary greatly from one to another - but a physical therapist would be the actual doctor you'd want to see for this kind of problem.

shoota 

That's certainly something easy to try.

Awesome, I've always wanted a good warm up routine but have never found one I like so I'll have a look at this one. I feel like if I get warmed up and stretched out well (like riding to the group for example) before the hard part of the ride happens that the back pain onset is pushed back. But I can't say that with 100% certainty. I'm guessing this may be more of a strength issue because I've always a relatively weak core, even when I was playing professional baseball. Maybe I just have to invest more time into the conditioning than other people do..

Nachoman

If I were you Shoota, I would google-up as many low back strengthening exercises and stretches as possible and then pick five or ten of them that you enjoy and would do regularly. For example, the exercise in the first Tom Danielson' clip is something I do regularly but when I first tried, it was extremely difficult for me. Knowing myself, the second exercise is something I would not stick with. So I wouldn't even try. Too much stuff out there. Then, I would make the commitment, stick with it for a couple months, and if I don't see any improvement, I'd look to another potential remedy.

FBinNY 

Whenever a cyclist suffers unexplained lower back pain, my first suspicions are

1- saddle too high and reaching for the pedals
2- saddle too far back and pulling forward off the wider support area
3- rear support area not wide enough or the right shape to support the hip/sit bones
4- pushing high gears too much of the time.

All 4 of these can cause rocking of the pelvis and increase stress on the lower spine, and I explore it by riding behind the person to observe if the hip is stable or rocking.

Stabilizing the hip if it wasn't already is easy and often solves the problem. But it that's not the issue, you're in for a long tough battle trying to pin it down. Rather than identify another cause, I'd working on strengthening the muscles to improve lower back support and if I see improvement, focus my efforts in that direction.

shoota 

I actually spent the whole month of November focused on cycling specific exercises but it didn't do much, if anything. I'll try lowering my saddle a hair, moving it forward a hair, and switching out the 143mm saddle for the 155mm, again. The 155mm seems to be much worse at giving me a saddle sore so I tend to use the 143mm and sit just in front of the wide part.

FBinNY 

This may possibly be the issue. (and it may not). Before changing anything have a friend ride directly behind you and observe if your hips rock when you pedal. Of course just about everybody's do to an extent, so he might have to follow a few others to gt a sense of what's normal, so he can compare yours.

If wider saddles cause sores, don't go that route as much as trying to sit a bit farther back on the existing one. Sometimes adjusting the saddle angle helps, and you're trying to find the angle that offsets any tendency to slide forward, while not goosing you where you don't want it.

If sores are a problem, look at the shape of the saddle. Some are almost triangular (looking from the top) while others are very concave on the sides tapering very rapidly from the wide area then curving into the nose. The more sculpted area improves thigh clearance while still allowing you to sit farther back.

AND-- don't forget to try to ride lower gears. In fact it might be that simple. Do a ride making a conscious effort to ride in the gear below "ideal" rather than above whenever you have the choice.

Bah Humbug

I've had similar situations, only I can ride forever when I do it properly, but somehow at low cadence/ high effort I recruit my lower back muscles and get almost as bad as you're describing. I can't tell you how to avoid it, but I know what you mean. Good luck.

JohnJ80

Me too. Lower cadence is deadly for me. Higher cadence solved problems in my back and feet. Also bike fit, generally small changes, can have a positive impact.

For what it's worth. My latest bout with low back pain was related to spinal facet joint issues (for me, an aging thing). PT is helping with that. Helping as in ending the pain.

J.

CliffordK

• Age?
• Miles per day? Miles per week?
• Photo of bike?
• Photo(s) of rider on bike?
• Cadence?

I ride lower cadence, and at times, especially pulling a load, I'll have some back pain which I do attribute to mashing, but not enough to force me to change. I think it is usually a bit higher and to the sides, more in the kidney region.

I have changed my sleeping, and find myself preferring to sleep in a lazy-boy chair, which oddly gives me a lot less morning back pain than any bed. Does dieting also help (not obese, but a few pounds overweight)?

The other thing I did. After decades of riding a large frame Colnago, I decided to build up a small frame Litespeed, with about 2" of additional handlebar drop below the seat level. Ouch, the first few hundred miles were painful. But, after riding through it, now it just seems pretty normal and rides just fine. But, if it hadn't improved, then I would have chosen bars at no lower than the seat.

PaulRivers

Lol "easy" isn't the word I'd use...cheap? Sure. You'll see what I mean about not easy when you do it.

Fyi if you search on youtube for "defranco limber 11" it should also give you a video of how to do it from the author.

This is about the best one I've been able to find so far. It's designed for weightlifting and sports stuff, but it focuses on warming up and loosening up your hips so it works well for biking to.

Doing Limber 11 was the first thing that significantly increased my comfort on the bike. And at my desk, and in my car, etc. It was rather an eye opener that it was possible to improve hips flexibility and motion, none of the "I'm leaning and stretching this but it doesn't seem to be making a functional difference" stuff I was used to.

Your descriptions on core and back pain sound like me - nothing physically wrong, pain in the same spot in my back, weak core for forever. Man I HATED planks, pushups, etc before. They were the devil's exercises sent to torture me, lol.

Short version, I took Pilates, then hire the best instructor for a one-on-one thing to look at how I was doing the movements. I found core muscles I had no idea I had, and certainly hadn't been using. After that and some exercise, I kinda like planks now. It's odd lol. Planks no longer feel like their is a gremlin and a goblin fighting to the death in my stomach area lol. Instead it's just an exercise.

I think that a lot of these problems are that physically, the correct muscles exist to do whatever exercise without pain, but they're dormant and ununsed and we end up using other ones that cause issues.