mrodgers

To continue OT.... You don't need to heel-toe downshift at all on the road. You shouldn't be using maximum braking when on the road (except in emergency situations of course.) Heel-toe downshifting is applying the brakes while rolling your foot over to blip the throttle to downshift while braking. I hardly touch the brakes at all when I'm driving. There's no need to come screaming up to a stop and slam my brakes on. I let off the throttle with plenty of distance and glide to almost a stop before applying the brakes.

You should however rev match with blipping throttle when downshifting, just it doesn't have to be incorporated into braking with maximum force during normal road driving. Rev matching allows a smoother gear change, less weight transfer to the front, and reduces stress on the rest of the drivetrain.

wphamilton

I'll heel-toe downshift maybe once in a year, probably much less than that even since I'm a more laid-back driver than previously. I just don't see any point in it, ever, for driving around on public streets.

Sometimes match the engine revs on downshift for engine braking, but honestly there's not much point in that either. Slower deceleration and just using the brakes is better in almost all normal situations.

I do like to redline in a lower gear on the bike sometimes.

Dan333SP

To me, when I say heel-n-toe I don't mean a racetrack style slamming your heel down on the pedal for max braking while blipping, I'm talking about gentle or moderate braking with the left side of my foot while rolling the right side onto the throttle to blip the revs up as I downchange. It's just 2nd nature and isn't any less smooth than an automatic dropping gears as you decelerate.

I used to autocross on occasion and have the whole downshifting for the track vs. the road thing down fairly well, I think.

Another OT comment- My friend had a Nissan 370Z with a stick. He put a supercharger on it and it was scary fast, but that's not the point. We took it from Miami to Sebring a few years ago to watch the 12 hr race and I drove on the way up. I absolutely did not hit 165 mph on an empty road because that's just irresponsible.

Anyway, the car has a built in rev-match feature that senses what gear you're changing in to and immediately revs the engine to the appropriate RPM for your speed and holds it until you've released the clutch.

At first, it's disorienting and makes downshifting sloppy because you're still trying to blip as it is also attempting to match revs for you, but eventually you work with it and find that it idiot-proofs your gearbox. You can also disable it if you're a traditionalist. Kinda cool, I think more cars should have that feature.

Reynolds 

That would be double clutching, I learned it as a kid because our car's 1st gear wasn't synchronized and sometimes I needed to downshift from 2nd at a steep switchback.

jsigone

my car does not like downshifting from 2nd to 1st nor will I try it. I'd clutch kick 2nd if needed on a really really tight switch back.

mrodgers

I don't do it for engine braking (the rev matching.) I do it so I'm always in a proper RPM power range for moments when I may need to accelerate. My car is a Jetta 1.8 turbo. It's a turd below 2000 rpm and won't accelerate. Above 2000, it will pull up a wall with the torque in any gear if I wanted to. I have had to throttle my way out of a situation before.

I am also a bit of a sport driver (ok, a lot of a sport driver) but not so much that I need to heel-toe downshift. I just blip the throttle and downshift to keep the engine running around 3000 RPM when I'm slowing down. When on a windy country road, you shouldn't be just braking down for the turn up ahead, then shifting as you enter or after you've entered the turn. Even in normal driving, you want to select the proper gear before the turn during the initial braking or even no braking slowing down so that you're unsettling the car as little as possible.

I've never driven anything with automatic rev-matching. I think that would indeed be weird. I hear you too, I absolutely did not hit 139 after work when coworker had been spouting his mouth off about his Nissan V6 truck and ask him the next day where he went to behind me...

Double clutching is disengaging the clutch, shift to neutral, engage and disengage the clutch, shift into gear, and engage the clutch again. Rev matching is just the blipping of the throttle during the transition from one gear the lower gear so that the RPM matches the RPM the engine will see in the lower gear. You usually rev match when you double clutch. You don't double clutch just when you rev match.

Carbonfiberboy 

I always thought it was more like a light plane. Heartrate = throttle = increase to climb. Cadence = stick = push forward, increases; pull back, slows; pull back too far, stalls.

I always double-clutched when driving hard. No clutch on a bike. Shifting a tandem on a hill would be easier sometimes if there were one, though Stoker would complain about lack of foresight.

TimothyH

This is 100% correct. Double clutching is not necessarily the same thing as heel-toe rev matching.

Double clutching can use the same heel-toe technique to manipulate the pedals if done while braking but double clutching presses in the clutch pedal twice. Heel-toe rev matching only requires pressing in the clutch once.

In spite of what Sheldon Brown believed, neither is typically done to slow the car.

Reynolds 

That's what I meant, in 2nd-engage clutch-neutral-disengage clutch-rev match-engage clutch-1st-disengage clutch. Of course no braking in a climb...

wphamilton

I drive a standard transmission Jetta turbo also, but I'd feel silly driving it like a sports car. Different strokes I suppose.

I don't double clutch at all, rev matching is second nature when I do it, which isn't often. I don't need to be anywhere near 3000 though when just slowing down. Generally, just be in the right gear. Rev'ing the motor when you don't need to accelerate - sounds good, maybe enjoy the feel of the engine, otherwise not much point in it.

jsigone

^^haha I call it enjoying the car

mrodgers

Stick some nice moderately sticky tires with some stiff sidewalls to reduce roll and the thing handles like it's on rails. I love the handling. I do have the Wolfsburg which I think the only difference from the GLS is having a bit stiffer suspension and a bit wider stock wheel and tire combo. It is considered a sports sedan after all.



There's been many times here in PA where I've had deer run out in front of me narrowly missing the front of my car. In PA, if one runs out, there's at least one more coming. Most instances it's too close to brake and avoid. I usually choose to aim for the first deer and hit the throttle. I thread right between the 2 deer running across the road this way. The only time I've hit a deer (twice) was when I tried to brake to avoid. Since switching to trying to hit them, I've avoided them every time. I have close encounters probably 7 or 8 times a year.

OldTryGuy

No

Heel/toe, flip/shift......it's like sex. Sooooo good when done correctly. To me the feed back from the car when done properly was sensually and audibly pleasing as if being spoken to by the car. I don't get that feeling when shifting the bike but do get a sense of euphoria when pedaling along on a smooth road at a wonderful speed in the right gear. It just seems like "all is right with my world" and I can ride forever.

thin_concrete

Synchros did eliminate the need, but the old-school purists are holding on to their ways and preaching to the younger generations. At the rate manufacturers are going to double-clutch gearboxes, I fear my children (if I have any) will never have the pleasure of driving a manual car. And I will be hesitant to teach them on mine.

Changing clutches/flywheels is going to go the way of finding an auto mechanic that can rebuild a carburetor eventually.

thin_concrete

No manual car that I've owned liked going from 2nd to 1st.

kbarch

This is reminiscent of a lesson from shiphandling class: to avoid collision when maneuvering close to another ship, shoot its stern. In other words, if you aim for the tail end of a moving object, you'll avoid it. And like you say, if there's something following it at some distance, you'll usually split the difference.

Wow.... shiphandling class... that was AGES ago.

FLvector

My car has Di2.