Dan333SP

I follow LeMond on FB, and he always posts photos of the new steel Washoe being assembled. I'm not in the market for a steel bike, but I really do think it's a great looking frame in orange. Has anyone here ridden one? Is it comparable to other modern steel bikes, or is it just a noodly abuse of his name?

dr_lha

@dbnm has one:

#635

rpenmanparker 

I imagine it rides like he likes a bike to ride. I don't think he would put his name on just anything. He has always been closely involved with the design and execution of the bikes carrying his label. I would expect a good compromise of characteristics, stiff but not too stiff, comfy but not noodly, slightly long geometry and not too low a head tube.

All guesses. How did I do?

dr_lha

Laterally stiff and vertically compliant?

Dan333SP

"Accelerates quickly, floats up the climbs"

rpenmanparker 

Yes, but not too much. Steel is not given to excess.

rms13

Well I'm pretty sure he is significantly involved in the company and design so not an abuse of his name. I believe it has same geometry as his older bikes i.e. long top tube. I've heard it's nice but when you can get a custom built frame built from True Temper Platinum or S3 for almost half the price I would find it hard to justify.

dcsix

Not an abuse of his name, it's his "classic" geometry and he is part of the day to day operations and all aspects of what the bikes are. I would prefer the San Remo Blue option at the same price. I would love to try one someday.

McBTC

Looking at the geometry of the older Lemonds (BA, Zurich, etc.) --e.g., for a 61cm c-c, Lemond at 74° head tube angle (72° seat tube) and 1021 cm wheelbase and longish top tube of 605, it looks to me that a Lemond Washoe is the same bike -- right down to the 853 tubing -- except that the Washoe has a down-sloping top tube.

For me, fitting was on the hard side but these are great bikes and worth the effort to set them up right. My 59 was a bit small (had to work to get my knees behind the pedal spindle) and my 61 was a bit large (had to work with stem length and height due to the long top tube). The 853 frames are magic.

dbnm

I do own the Washoe. The only one in my state which is kind of cool.

I've only owned steel bikes and for me this is one of the best and now that I think of it, I've only owned Lemonds.

I am not a racer but do like to go fast and this bike handles it all very well.

I can tell you that Greg is very involved, based on my experience ordering the bike.

If you have any specific questions, please let me know.

McBTC

Times have changed --if you want a new steel bike it's available but you now pay specialty prices for it --e.g., >double what a new hydroformed alloy bike with the same components will run you... But, the Washoe frame is made in the USA so, that's worth something.

dr_lha

This is not a true statement.

Dan333SP

Thanks, that's good to hear. For now it's in the dream bike category, and I know there are options that may have better characteristics for far less, but that doesn't seem to be the point with this bike. I hope they're selling well and it's fun to see Greg enjoying his relationship with the sport again without all the Trek/Lance negativity that pushed him away a decade ago.

dbnm

I ordered the bike for a bunch of different reasons:
- I wanted a bike that was made in America. This was made in Portland OR.
- I admire Lemond and think he is on the right track with this bike.
- I wanted a rare bike.

This was also a big purchase for me. It was a big deal.

bruce19

If I didn't already get a smokin' deal on this Guru steel I would have been giving the Washoe a hard look.

McBTC

dr_lha

So you were talking about the Washoe specifically when you said "steel bikes" then? Yes, it's an expensive bike. It's expensive compared to other steel bikes as well. It's a really expensive and unique bike. You're not comparing like for like.

For example, $1750 the Jamis Quest Elite is 105 specced steel bike, priced about the same as the 105 CAAD 12, with better (IMHO) components than the Cannondale.

questelite

$895 for a Motobecane Gran Premio with 105:

https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...emio_elite.htm

McBTC

Such low prices will certainly put downward pressure the resale value of old steelies.

dcsix

Mc, I dare say that no matter what the question, your answer is always (usually?) "FELT Z85". I'm sorry but this is not a fair comparison...the LeMond is a unique thing; not everything is about $$$, or a FELT Z85.

rms13

Curtlo custom built in USA frame in True Temper Platinum is $990 and in S3 is $1125. Add Ritchey or Easton fork for $2-300 and still much less than Lemond. Gunnar custom and standard geometry options also made in USA are around the same price. Wraith made in USA with Columbus Life with Enve fork is $1350. Many other custom builders can get you a steel frame in the same price range

eric1971

It looks like he's lengthened the head tube. The 57 Washoe shows a 179 head tube. My 57 Zurich measures about 160. The result is a slightly shorter reach then my 58 Roubaix. 389 vs 392.

jamesdak 

I was close to buying one too. Love the ride of both old LeMonds and wanted one (still do) done by the man himself. But, it's a lot of money and there's a lot of competition at the price range. I actually got into a Lynskey for less but still want one of these. N+1 is a cruel beast.

rpenmanparker 

Longer head tube does not necessarily affect real reach to the bars in the finished bike no matter what it appears to do in the bare frame. Sure, you may need fewer spacers, but the reach and drop to the bar can easily be the same.

McBTC

What makes is a LeMond more unique than a Z-series bike? Is it because relatively few of them will ever be built?

rpenmanparker 

Yep, weird attitude that fewer and rarer bikes is better than more and more common bikes. In Superman lore speak this is the Bizarro attitude, totally backwards of what makes sense. A reverse jealousy. Instead of coveting what your buddy has, you eschew it as too common just because he has it. A form of unsupported snobbery.