whitemax

I have the Rail 52s from several years ago and they have been great. Not out of true one bit after thousands of miles and a few potholes here and there. November Dave says they can be converted and ridden tubeless provided the pressure is not over 100 lbs. presumably so the added pressure does not compromise the side walls. The new Rails are built tubeless I have read on the November website and can handle a bit higher pressure. I wanted to see if any here have any experience riding the older Rails tubeless and how it went.

dvdslw

No experience with them but if November Dave says they're good to go then give it a shot. I would ask him which stems and tape to use because there's several different options these days and you want to get it right the first time.

UnfilteredDregs

I've got 7k on mine, all tubeless. Works like a charm. A real bastard to mount so...don't be afraid to judiciously lever the last bit of bead on with plastic levers.

Orange Seal tape (Lightest & flexy) two wraps, go with the 24mm the 18mm is too narrow, and I get these 80mm tubeless stems...I forget the brand, I'll look it up...

Valve stems: https://www.gredesusa.com/parts.php?main_sort_id=31

SirHustlerEsq

Which tire? I have 34s and make give it a go.

UnfilteredDregs

RAIL52 btw...

I've used mostly Schwalbe tubeless...ONE's...S-ONE's at the moment... I put the G-ONE's on for gravel/dirt.

For 23-28mm no more than 1oz of sealant per tire. Orange Seal recommends upwards of 2, but if you mark your calendar and replenish appropriately you can skimp on it a bit.

Always add sealant at the 9'oclock or 3'oclock position, and inflate with the stem at 12 o'clock or you will gum up the valve stem.

SirHustlerEsq

Thanks, I kind of want the Spesh tire, need something sticky for crit racing.
FWIW, Orange Seal is supposedly always a solution, never dries out. I've had it last over six months in CX wheels and never dry out, still effective.

UnfilteredDregs

I would definitely try the Spesh...but for my weight, 190, and roads...the psi would be a tad higher than I like it. Part of running a good line is optimizing tires for your conditions, ya know?

I'm rolling the 30mm S-ONE's at 45f/60r...amazing.

whitemax

Thanks for the response! I was beginning to wonder if anyone had tried it. Just to clarify, your Rails are the older version and not the new? I have my wheels wrapped in 20mm Stans tape and will use their sealant and valves. I have a pair of Stans Alpha wheels and haven't changed the sealant on those in over 1 1/2 years without incident so I reckon it has been doing it's job.

UnfilteredDregs

Yes, OG Rails.. I called Dave and said, "Will I die Dave?" He said "No." lmao

Dave runs them tubeless.

chaadster

The truth is starting to come out; I've been sayin' just an annual check and top up (as needed) at the head of the season is all that's needed, not this nonsense about checking every 2 months or whatever.

Big question though: do you still have liquid sealant after 1.5 years? How much did you start with, volume-wise?

whitemax

I haven't checked in a few months but last time I did, there was some liquid and some rubber like balls in the tire. I believe Stan says the sealant is good for 6-7 months but it'll go much longer IMO. Seems that the wheels recommended 55 ml of sealant and I put in around 45-50.

Funny thing just happened but it wasn't funny at the moment. I mounted a new Scwhalbe One S tire on the front; wasn't terribly hard to get on. Used a Co2 cartridge to get the beads set. But, some air leakage out around the valve. I took the tire off, wrapped some screw thread tape around the base of the valve and remounted the tire. Still leaking...uggg. So, I go to put some sealant in. Load up the injector, connect to the valve and couldn't get the sealant to go in. I kept pushing and the damn connector popped off with sealant going all over creation. I think what happened was that the bottle of sealant had developed some clots and one blocked the sealant from going in. If I had a video of my reaction, it would go viral on the net I'm quite sure. I had an atomic melt down (anybody hear me cussing all the way over here in NC?). At any rate, it seems to be holding air....I'll check on it in the morning. Perhaps a small amount of sealant found it's way in but it isn't much I'm quite sure.

UnfilteredDregs

You need to clean the injector with running hot water after every use.

I only lose about 1-2psi overnight.

UnfilteredDregs

...and in my experience sealant doesn't go longer than 3 months. It's not worth the compromise IMO. Just top off and not worry about flats, that is the point.

chaadster

Any idea how to explain the variation in experiences? You and I, for example, have similar climate, have both used Schwalbe One and S-One, and I believe have both used Stan's and Orange Seal (although my Orange Seal experience is only about two months now).

dvdslw

Is it leaking at the base of the stem outside the wheel where the nut is? If so, your tape may have lifted in one spot? Happened to me on a set of Assaults I had and it drove me nuts trying to figure it out. If there's any spot where the tubeless tape contacts the rim that is either uneven or not properly prepped/cleaned, the air will escape under the tape, find its way through the nearest spoke access hole along the rim channel, and finally out through the point of least resistance which is the base of the valve stem (outside of the rim). The o-ring that goes under the nut is not there to keep air in, its there to keep the stem from rattling and keep dirt out. I could be wrong but it happened to me and lets just say I wasn't a happy camper because I actually bought wheels that said "tubeless ready" on the side of them. Good luck with them and I hope my experience helps you find the leak.

dvdslw

I just dismounted my Pro One's the other day to rotate them and found my 2oz of Stan's sealant was pretty much all dried up after about 4 months of use. In comparison, my previous Fusion 3's and the original One's seemed to always have sealant in them even after whole season without adding any. My understanding is that the new Schwalbe lineup of tires are a bit more porous with thinner sidewalls which is how they got the weight down on them but requires the use of sealant as opposed to the original One's that would work just fine without it. I have noticed that the pressure drops a bit more with them while sitting for a few days compared to my previous tires so introducing more new air before each ride probably accelerates the drying process of the sealant.

chaadster

Makes sense. I've only had the S-Ones w/ Orange going about two months, so I'll watch for that. Additionally, I only put about 1.5oz sealant in that 30c, up from the 1oz I keep in the 23c Ones.

The weather seems to have broken for the season here, so it's time to replace my Ones. I've been wanting to try the Corsa Speed, so that may provide another data point on sealant durability. I guess for me it doesn't really matter too much as I tend to eat through the rear tire once a season, so I'm changing it out within 3 or four months, which provides a natural opportunity for me to check the front, so I'm not in real danger of getting caught dry, not that it would be the end of the world in any case.

November Dave

It's pretty straightforward to go tubeless on the "OG" Rails. Just use good tire installation technique and DON'T use a metal tire lever. Those things are the devil's spawn. Tubeless exerts more pressure on the rim sidewalls (that was a PITA and required a heaping serving of bravery and protective gear to measure) so you definitely want to keep pressures lower than you might with tubes, but that's half the point anyway. At 160# fighting trim (okay, more like stringy and slack) I use like 72ish front and 78ish rear with 25mm tubeless road tires Some of which say 23mm on the side, some of which say 25mm on the side, but the calipers call them all 25s. I like actual 25s.

My sealant usually lasts several months before it becomes dried snot on the inside of the tire. All sealants, all tires, it's all been about the same on that front for me.

UnfilteredDregs

How many miles a week are you rolling? Weather, temps, etc.. would come into play I guess. In other news, whatever the new flat protection is with the 2nd generation ONE's seems to be pretty good...I haven't even had a puncture yet this season...knock on asphalt.

chaadster

Great point regarding mileage; probably spinning causes faster evaporation. I switch between a few bikes regularly, so any one does spend a lot of time idle.

I puncture rarely in any case, and have had the S-Ones on so few rides, I cannot make any comment on the 2nd gen Schwalbe tubeless' Microskin benefits.

UnfilteredDregs

One thing I've noticed is if you don't frequently spin those wheels the sealant pools, some of it dries into a thicker layer where it's welled up, and that does mess with the wheel balance a bit... Probably academic but...fyi.

beatlebee 

I run Orange Seal in tubeless and tubular. In the tubular (veloflex = latex inners), the sealant dries up much more quickly. Maybe a factor of two or so.

whitemax

My injector was clean. The problem was that some of the sealant coagulated in the bottle and some of it got stuck in the tube leading out of the injector. I of course could not see it through the sealant.

whitemax

Yes, I think that is the problem. I installed the tape when I got the wheels thinking I would one day convert to tubeless so I have been riding with tubes. Now, the tape indeed has a few air pockets after all this time riding them with tubes. I did my best to smooth them out as I didn't have any new tape on hand. I picked up some fresh sealant today and may just shoot about 30 ml in there to see if it seals up well enough.

whitemax

I have heard that the Orange Seal dries up quicker than the Stans but I don't have any experience with it myself.