FrozenK

That still doesn't jive with "just my leg touching the back of his bike." And it is nearly impossible he'd have continued without crashing after essentially butt ****ing the other guy with his handlebar.

I think it is just as likely his leg hit the other guys shoe (Lamper-Merida uses Northwave shoes with BOA lacing. The dial could easily cut through his leg)
As for the other guy Ventoso claims was injured by a rotor, his team has said that they don't know. It could be a rotor, it could be some other part or the bike or the cobblestones. They aren't speculating.

UCI banning discs for safety... keep in mind these are the same guys who think taping a wrench to a 14lb bike makes it safe enough to ride...

joeyduck

TL;DR

Pardon my ignorance, but I have some questions without getting into the whole safety discussion.

He cut his left leg correct?
On a disc brake that is mounted on the left of a fellow racers bike, correct?
Without going down?
Or was it contact with the front wheel brake, on the right side with a caliper?

cthenn

Seriously, this is turning into cycling's "who shot JFK". Where's the Zapruder film of the grassy knoll? CSI 41 on the case to determine whether the rider was lying about how he got injured.

RJM

No kidding.

From his description of the crash that is in his initial letter...

There is a pile up at speed and he crashed into the rider in front of him (whose bike is probably not pointed straight down the road anymore because he wiped out, probably because another rider went down) and his leg hit the disc rotor, he didn't actually crash onto the ground and still had enough momentum to keep on going. It seems very plausible to me and it highlights the issue about what crashes are like in a peloton.

Sidney Porter

Kristen Shepard shot jfk that plot was solved on 1980 while we were riding 10 speeds over the grassy knoll

StanSeven

What's funny is many posters saying they wouldn't own discs used to argue how good discs are. I remember one in particularly was extremely vocal in his opinions. Now it's a different story.

thin_concrete

Yet very true...

Shimagnolo

No, no; The Cigarette Smoking Man did it.
I saw it on X-Files.

Slackerprince

Seems like a lot of pro teams have been dragging their feet in adopting disc brakes, just waiting for a ruling like this.
If disc brakes added an advantage, don't you think the teams would have transitioned immediately?
There is a mention of the situation in the Team Cannondale article in the current Cycle Sport magazine.

S

Ratzinger

This thread will be studied by historians in 50 years.

TimothyH

I couldn't care less what equipment pro athletes use or what sanctioning bodies do.

Just felt like saying that.


-Tim-

himespau 

UnfilteredDregs

We need to ban Assault Discs!

UnfilteredDregs

You're such a pretentious ass...sucks never getting laid I guess.

woodcraft

The magic rotor theory...

Psimet2001 

Even at the top that's not really how it all works.

You have deals/sponsorships with each element. Bike. Wheels. Components. ....kits, shoes, helmets, glasses, tires, etc. Sponsorships don't really work the way I think a lot of people believe they do. It isn't uncommon to use some of the same equipment for multiple years. It helps a team fill in spots, have lots of backups, etc. Everything is usually re-badged with new stickers to look current gen.

When you make a leap from rim brake to disk you basicly hard reset your entire service course. It means a greater need/demand on all of the other sponsors.

Example: Cannondale says "we want you to run disc this year". Team goes then to wheel sponsor, "They want us to run disc frames this year. Instead of the 40 sets we needed we would need roughly 80 sets and then 40 sets of aluminum to train on because we now have nothing... as well as special purpose stuff for climbing events, etc.....oh and we still need that $200k check as well".

"That's not going to happen. If Cannondale wants you to run disc so damn bad then they need to help foot the bill for some of the wheels otherwise we walk and I'll spend your money on another team instead."

Also some of the time they actually don't get full groups for free. They may have to pay some portion. Comes out of sponsorship money. Other times there's agreements that effectively restrict gearing choices. "if you're running our components then you need the full package or we're not in otherwise it can't be used in any print ads." "But you guys don't have us down for xxxx parts" "That's right. You have plenty from our agreement last year and you're obligated to run those for 2 seasons. if you're changing then you need to buy them on your own." "Call back the frame guys and tell them we're on rim brakes again this year."

I always love how everyone feels like there some serious science going on all year and that teams have gear guys working all year to source the latest and greatest next thing. It just doesn't happen like that. The manufacturer's develop new stuff. They spin the story on all of the "science" they have put into it but they take it to the teams. All of the sides that are working with them - the teams have to make decisions and compromises based on what their options are and what their real needs are and what the bottom line $ is going to be. This isn't auto racing.

Doge

This was a crit my junior son was in Sunday. He was a few seconds behind the crash. Watch it in full screen/slow mo and see the front hub within inches of the rider on the ground's - neck. Would a disc have cut his neck? Unlikely, and it was not one of the 8+ discs in the race. But likely enough that I don't want to find out. There was a team with discs. Not really worth the risk IMO.

Psimet2001 

That's our boy Monk (Brandon Feehery - Astellas) taking the dive at 30 second mark.

Doge

There were 6 crashes that day. About 12 others in the other stages. There were 8 (maybe 16) of 200 bikes with discs. Seems like playing the odds. On of those discs will be slicing things more significant than legs allowed to go on.

Chain rings - at speed, normally have a chain on them and are in the middle of the bike. Can they gut - sure. Just less so.

gregf83 

Great video. Tough place for a pedal strike.
A crit seems like the last place discs would be useful.

StanSeven

What's even better is did Lizzie really die?

CliffordK

The Pro teams do two things. They test new equipment and prototypes. Right now, apparently Campy has some discs and hydraulics being tested by their teams. And they ADVERTISE.

There nothing that a major bike manufacture would like better than convince all the junior racers of the world that their grandfather's 50 year old bicycle just isn't good enough anymore.

So, I have no doubt that Zipp and Reynolds will be on board with making new wheels.

And, if need be, they may be able to rebuild the old wheels to new specs, at least for training wheels.

Who owns the team bikes? With a good sales team, they can probably be sold at cost, or perhaps even at a profit. No doubt major race podium bikes are worth quite a bit.

And, disc wheel technology isn't necessarily just slapping a disc onto a rim brake wheel. The entire wheel could be re-designed to take into account no need for a rim brake surface, or rim braking wear. I have no doubt that the wheel companies would be on board with this.

Component manufactures? If one goes with hydraulics, then that's new levers, brakes, hoses, & etc, and more equipment to showcase.

Campy doesn't have disc callipers yet (it is coming), but perhaps could use TRP HY/RD, or other 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] party equipment. However, at least Campy has been doing annual minor design changes in many of their components. So, even without hydraulics, new Super Record Derailleurs for everyone, and whatever else has changed too.

How long does pro equipment last anyway? Scratches just won't do. One might finish a stage on a badly crashed bike, but then does it get replaced? Or perhaps shoved down from the A team to the B team?

Anyway, I have no doubt the change isn't easy, but the power of convincing buyers they need to buy NEW stuff is likely strong enough to bring quite a few sponsors around.

Just look at how much rim brakes are shunned in the MTB world, and now in the Cyclocross world too.

CliffordK

Your chainrings all depend on what gear you are in. High gear, and they're reasonably protected, other than getting stuff stuck between the chain and the ring. Low gear, and one has all those outer spikes sticking out and hanging down. Perhaps less turning in a crash, but still sticking out.

Precise braking would seem most useful in a criterium. Whether there is a true difference remains to be proven.

As mentioned above, putting radiuses instead of sharp edges on the discs as well as a round outer edge would just seem logical. And using equipment with adequate clearance for a radius on the edge.

Doge

In a road race, when it is in the small ring the bike is going slower. You can still get hurt, but there is more time to avoid getting cut and less momentum driving it into your body.
Someone somewhere I expect has been skewed by most parts. The discs seem to offer a higher % of more serious injury.

Ratzinger

Looks like his back wheel got launched off one of those reflective bumps.