Shuffleman

Do you live in the United States? I am assuming not, because there is essentially no chance of making bikes "a more practical transportation". Our cities and communities are simply not built in such a fashion. Many people work in a City but commute to a suburb. Personally, I have a 35 mile one way commute. That is just to my office. I then have to go out in the field throughout the day. A miniscule percentage of Americans can actually ride a bike to work. It would be great to be able to but our infrastructure is simply not built for that.
As for the bike industry, like any other industry there are ups and downs to it. I can't say that I know the specifics to which you refer but I am assuming that you are referring to the middleman. I have long stood up for BD and their model. I have no problem with that model or them. I do not ride one and doubt that I ever will ride one as I am far to picky with my road and mtb choices. I am not entirely sure why Trek, Giant, Specialized and Cannondale dominate the market. Clearly they all make nice bikes but they are no better or worse than many of the other brands out there. Unless you live in a large affluent city, there are probably little choices outside the big 4. In my market the LBS all carry those brands. One carries Felt as well but for the most part that is it. They may claim to be dealers of Wilier, Colnago or Pinarello but they never sell them or stock them.
BD has carved out a niche and there is nothing wrong with that. Maybe Canyon's model will enter the U.S. and make a dent. Who knows.
As far as Entry level goes, it is mostly relevant. I would classify an Entry Level bike as one that is above the big box store bikes that provides a true entry level into the sport.The emphasis is on the word sport. If you just lolly gag around the neighborhood, you do not need much. A Wally World bike would be suitable. If you want to exercise and treat this more as a sport than the entry level is probably something equipped with Claris or Sora. This is probably where the groupsets are made to take the actual mileage that a person may throw at it. If I am on a mtb, I would say that you can get away with a Box store bike on light stuff if you rarely use it. If you want to ride more hard core rides than you probably need to have something that can put up with the stress of the ride. That typically means Alivio or better.

Dan333SP

LOL at everyone in this thread too busy arguing over semantics to respond to the OP's question here.

No, I don't think anyone would consider your Fuji to be "entry level". You've probably realized that it is a relative term and can be used by marketers to steer you towards more expensive bikes, but yours definitely is not entry level by any stretch of the imagination.

It is aluminum and you might have some carbon snobs telling you it's not up to snuff, but that's a well-proven frame with an excellent 6800 groupset. Some of the parts selection may be lower end like the wheels, but they are perfectly acceptable. Nice bike.

Bah Humbug

First a puff piece video and then a puff piece article. Nice.

CliffordK

There are plenty of affordable bikes out there.

Go to Walmart and look for an Affordable Bike. They'll have a whole rack of them.
Too expensive? Check out Craigslist where all the Walmart bike end up

A practical commuter? That means a different thing to different people.

A 10 mile commute isn't uncommon in the USA, even in the city.

And at least some people naturally choose the best bike for the situation. 2 mile commute... any bike will do. 10 miles, and it is on the divider where one might invest in a nice road bike. 15 to 20 miles each way? Good road bike.

True cost of ownership?

What is the true cost of ownership of one's typical car? Capital Cost, Gas, Insurance, Depreciation, Wear items, Maintenance and Repairs, Licensing?

If a bike can replace a car, it can save a lot of money. Bikes aren't just TOYZ.

Road peril vs long term health benefits? I choose to believe the long term health benefits outweigh the dangers of getting run over.

Bike shops encounter many issues. Part of the problem is the high cost of parts + labor vs the cost of department store quality junk and essentially imported labor. No doubt wholesale deals on parts are deals that end consumers can only dream about, if the shops care to open the purchase channels. But, even at wholesale, it is hard for a $30 mid-range derailleur to compete with a $5 Walmart derailleur. And try building a whole bike out of new quality components, even if acquired cheaply, and the prices add up. So they end up with low profit margins on some things and high margins on others. Then get a push-back from consumers who choose not to pay 3x the cost of tubes or brake pads.

PepeM

Many here seem to overrate the hardware needed for racing.

PepeM

When you can sell your product, whatever product that may be, in different tiers, you have hit jackpot. You no longer have to prove something is better, the tier system do it for you. Why would you get Tiagra? 105 is only $50 more. Etc. etc.

caloso

This is what I was going to say. My first "real" road bike was 8-speed RSX. Heavy and clunky but really solid. Bombproof even.

Doge

Depends who you are racing. I don't think it takes much to start. But later, it makes a bit of difference.

PepeM

Totally. Mainly referring to the 'entry level.'

Doge

The lowest cost bikes are far below the quality of the lowest cost cars. They are designed to be ridden the week you buy them, put in the garage. Kids bikes are better built and designed to be beat up, but may not ride so well.
So a bike that is as modest as an economy car that is also designed to be ridden often (commute, pleasure - just often) will be higher quality than the cheapest you can buy. It seems that is closer to $500.

kbarch

In any event, "entry level" assumes a well-defined category. Normally it's a single manufacturer's range, or some well-established type, like "full-suspension mountain bike" or "aero road bike." Just plain "bike" is just too broad a category to be of any use. Do kid's bikes count? You have to draw the boundaries somewhere meaningful, and "entry level" is whatever is the simplest and least expensive example that fits within the category of interest.

If we're talking "road bikes," I think we can define the boundaries with drop bars and derailleurs front and rear, in which case there are numerous examples in the $300-600 range. I don't know what else one would really need for an entry level race bike, but an entry level aero road bike with electronic shifting would be the next order of magnitude.

ltxi

Mixed Tiagra or less is entry level. Current Tiagra perhaps equals budget conscious serious. Actually serious begins with full 105. My sweet spot has evolved to full Ultegra.

Just my/another, since you asked opinion.

link0

It's all relative, what entry level means. I normally think of an alum road bike with Sora/Claris/Tiagra components and around 20-22lbs to be entry level. Can be obtained for under $800 new or $400 used.

Doge

Scope should be clear. Road bikes because this is a Road forum. There are other threads on what what a road bike is.
Entry into what? As anyone can ride, I'd say (just making my own rules) entry into the club/group ride/race.
No matter how they apply the lipstick a (new) Walmart special is not an entry level bike.
This should be a bike that if you road you could go 80%-90% as fast as those with bikes 10X as much. And they should not break, or if they do there is some support to get it fixed.
But - I do not agree entry level bikes are "just as good". They are great values, but $10K-$15K does buy you something...

brn2run

It really depends on who you ask.
I have friends who take nice weekend rides on the bike path who think they have it
good riding their $400 bike and can't imagine why anyone would spend more.
I once paid that for a new bike.... in 1986.
And also, what you paid may just mean you are a smart shopper.
My current ride is a Jamis Xenith Race. Full carbon with Ultegra that I got on a closeout sale for $1050.

Stratocaster

To ME, "entry level" refers to the person first - meaning "for what purpose will the rider be needing the bike?"

So in my case, I was first interested in racing crits. So for me, a CAAD 10 was a good "entry level" bike for that purpose. Good, but not top of the line.

Then I figured I wanted to do some "serious" road cycling - putting on some miles, getting in shape, joining the cycling club in my area. So in that context, "entry level" would be a bike with specs that would be dependable, yet allow me to not break the bank. Probably in the $700 - $1,200 area.
Could that be done for less? Yeah, I guess. but as an "enthusiast" I think having equipment that is reliable and road worthy is the way to go.

eastbay71

I took the time to watch the whole video and I can't believe how much mis-information there is in it.

1. He says he needed to replace the wheels because they failed immediately and he got a pair that were up to the task for $120. what cheap crap was on there before that $120 wheels made that much better.
2. he says he had to replace the crank because he just didn't trust the one on the bike but got a good one for $60. The bike comes with an FSA Vero crank. What did he get that was better than that for $60?
3. he says carbon fiber bikes can't be repaired but they can.
4. he says aluminum bikes can't be repaired but steel bikes can. Wouldn't damage that distorts the metal be un-repairable in both cases and damage that could be welded could be repaired in either?
5. He says the Motobecane cost $650. It costs $1395 today. It doubled in price in 2 years?
6. he says the Trek (Madone) costs $11,500. That would be a pro level bike that you would have hard time finding in a bike shop. he shold have made a more real world comparison to something like the Trek Modone 9 which is closer to $6000
7. he says he doesn't know why the industry strayed from steel bikes. have you ridden a bike boom bike and then a current bike? Those incremental changes stack up.
8. he says you may need to change cranks if the length isn't correct and that will cost you $2000. Um the most expensive crank I could find was a Campy Super record Carbon at just over $600. Pricey! but not $2k
9. he says all this and then says bikes shouldnt come with seats, bars, wheels or pedals. if you can do that level of assembly shouldn't you advocate for buying a used bike?
10. he talks a lot about how you don't need all kinds of stuff but then says you should definitiely use cleats. Current studies have shown that there is little gain from cleats and I think its too scary for beginners to use them

He seemed to just ramble on and on. Someone should have written a script for him.

eastbay71

I think entry level will be different for everyone. I would define it as the amount of money you could invest in a new activity that you are just trying out and may not continue doing. If I end up walking away from something and never doing it again I don't want to be out a significant amount of money just to give it a try. But nice equipment could be the difference between me trying it again versus never trying it again. So for me entry level would probably not be the cheapest rung of the ladder but for others it may be.

lightspree

Enough to get you in the door.

Just enough, and not much more.

CliffordK

Perhaps it all doesn't matter. Whatever gets the person outside on the bike.

I see plenty of commuters riding 1970's era bikes, MTBs, and just about anything that rolls.

I see a few retirees riding very fancy bikes in their full cycling garb, looking like a pro athlete, at half the speed. If that is what makes them happy and gets the out on a bike, that's just fine.

Strava is an interesting phenomena, with plenty of old geezers and young pups out there pounding the pavement. And, the bike doesn't really matter.

If one is doing that level of customization, do a frame-up build, or order a semi-custom build from the manufacture.
However, most "entry level" buyers probably at most change out the seat.

Don't forget the $500 worth of jerseys, shorts, and accessories to go with the $300 bicycle (which he doesn't ride).

When starting the video with the fluff of credentials. And really only superficially reviewing 2 Bikes Direct bikes. I have to think that the presenter had some stake in the Bikes Direct company.

Otherwise, why not talk about components. Claris, Sora, Tiagra, 105, Ultegra, Veloce, Chorus, Force, etc. Get down to some of the details one might be interested in to select a bicycle.

Show a variety of manufacturers/brands.

Just about every major brand has "entry" bikes. Trek certainly has sub-entry levels.

lightspree

Basically, Martin shares some good points, and some others that perhaps aren't as good. I like to go with the better, more useful stuff he has.

lightspree

The major thing, for me, is a much needed counterpoint or counterweight to the heavy weight of propaganda -- the currents or undertows that people get caught in, that lead them into a lot of overspending and unnecessary loss of money.

I agree that it could be taken even farther, esp. if you go used. Still, the countercurrent seems good.

eastbay71

I do agree with his basic premise that people pay way too much for bikes. I've seen this happen many times with friends and have also fallen victim to the LBS hard sell and upselling and loading on accessories. But why does he need to exaggerate the differences so much? And why like @CliffordK said doesn't he get into the components? My first bike when I got back into biking was a Motobecane Jubilee DLX from Bikes Direct. I still own it and ride it frequently. But I also see the place for higher end equipment.

When he got into the bit about how he couldn't get an Ultegra front derailleur to work correctly and it ended up causing the chain to fall off and eventually causing the rear derailleur to go into the spokes and ruining his entire bike, OMG I almost lost my ish. If this is your level of competence you have no place making a bike purchasing video. I don't doubt his milage or ability to ride. But driving my car across the country and back doesn't make me an auto mechanic. And putting a lot of miles on a bike is no garantee that you know anything about bikes.

CliffordK

The presenter did admit that he had a poorly tuned drivetrain that self destructed.

It might actually be a good reason to buy the cheapest available

NYMXer

An entry level bike, IMHO, is affordable and built to last long enough to get you interested in continuing the sport and seek an upgrade. Not necessarily a new bike, but upgrade as funds and time/interest allow.
Mind you, not much at the big box store fit my idea of an entry level bike, they are more along the lines of disposable rather than upgradable.