Group training on narrow road: 2-up or singlefile?
#1
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Group training on narrow road: 2-up or singlefile?
Our club group ride route has a couple mile-long narrower sections with more cars and worse sightlines.
We're a bit uncertain of the best way to handle it.
Singlefile or two-up.
Actually, I'm more concerned about our B Group. When they go singlefile they tend to get gaps between them.
These are groups of 10-20 riders.
We're gonna fix this but I'm wondering if we should just work on closing all the gaps in singlefile or if we should just aim for 2-up instead.
I kinda like taking the lane and having riders with blinkies at the back who use hand signals to tell cars when it's good to pass.
We don't want to balk cars needlessly. When we stretch out singlefile we do delay them too much. I'm thinking a compact group then wave-around is the way to go. These roads are open enough and not so very heavily used so that if we were compact I think they could get around quick.
(PS: I see this is a training question, not racing. But this subject doesn't seem suitable for the Road section -- about bikes -- or the training section -- about plans. So I'll try the Roadies!)
We're a bit uncertain of the best way to handle it.
Singlefile or two-up.
Actually, I'm more concerned about our B Group. When they go singlefile they tend to get gaps between them.
These are groups of 10-20 riders.
We're gonna fix this but I'm wondering if we should just work on closing all the gaps in singlefile or if we should just aim for 2-up instead.
I kinda like taking the lane and having riders with blinkies at the back who use hand signals to tell cars when it's good to pass.
We don't want to balk cars needlessly. When we stretch out singlefile we do delay them too much. I'm thinking a compact group then wave-around is the way to go. These roads are open enough and not so very heavily used so that if we were compact I think they could get around quick.
(PS: I see this is a training question, not racing. But this subject doesn't seem suitable for the Road section -- about bikes -- or the training section -- about plans. So I'll try the Roadies!)
#2
Ninny
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Best would be 41 riders across.
... but seriously folks ...
this is a road cycling question rather than a racing question, so I'll move the thread.
... but seriously folks ...
this is a road cycling question rather than a racing question, so I'll move the thread.
#3
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I wouldn't wave anyone around, personally. That's asking for trouble. Only the driver should decide if it's safe to pass. If the road is wide enough that they can pass you one up without having to go much in the other lane, I would say one up. But otherwise, 2-up and compact is best in my opinion, although a lot of people will argue for 1 up in that situation.
#4
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I wouldn't wave anyone around, personally. That's asking for trouble. Only the driver should decide if it's safe to pass. If the road is wide enough that they can pass you one up without having to go much in the other lane, I would say one up. But otherwise, 2-up and compact is best in my opinion, although a lot of people will argue for 1 up in that situation.
While 2-up and compact is more efficient, it's far more likely to induce road rage. By riding single-file, you're not seen as directly impeding the progress of the cars.
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And when you wave a car around and they're slow and a car pulls out of a driveway into them and they all die and maybe some of your riders too?
#6
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Michigan law (MVC 257.660b) says that two abreast is allowed unless there is a bike lane.
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#9
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I wouldn't wave anyone around, personally. That's asking for trouble. Only the driver should decide if it's safe to pass. If the road is wide enough that they can pass you one up without having to go much in the other lane, I would say one up. But otherwise, 2-up and compact is best in my opinion, although a lot of people will argue for 1 up in that situation.
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If you think you should be able to double up, first fix that 10-20 rider gappy group bit. Split up into smaller groups, get underway about 3-5 minutes apart, then you can make a judgement call. Smaller groups - 8 riders tops - get by with doubling up and taking the lane, especially if they stay close, but get more than that and it's a parade, a serious obstacle.
If it's 40-50' from the front wheel of the front rider to the back wheel of the last rider, your group is as long as an 18-wheeler, and you wouldn't want to encounter one of those on that same road, would you? Often enough on such roads, they're prohibited.
If it's 40-50' from the front wheel of the front rider to the back wheel of the last rider, your group is as long as an 18-wheeler, and you wouldn't want to encounter one of those on that same road, would you? Often enough on such roads, they're prohibited.
#11
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And what happens when the guy in the back waves the car to pass and the 2 riders on the front of this 20 person group decide its time to pull left and drop to the back?
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#12
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Why make it so complicated - single file for narrow sections and double when space permits - simple.....
#13
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There's a similar thread in A&S: Narrow Lanes and Group Riding? Oh, that's your thread, and they suggested to post here.
#16
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We always ride double, but when a car is behind us, we'll go single file and wave them when there's a nice clearing.
Most of our roads are just not busy though.
I think if it's like you say, only one mile long, terrible sightlines, you just take the lane for that mile. Whether local law is single or double, ride within that scope, but take the lane regardless, in my opinion.
Most of our roads are just not busy though.
I think if it's like you say, only one mile long, terrible sightlines, you just take the lane for that mile. Whether local law is single or double, ride within that scope, but take the lane regardless, in my opinion.
#17
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What if you wave them and they wave back and then someone rings their bell and then the driver shouts on your left and then everybody dies?
#18
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2-abreast is generally better for all parties. More shelter for the rider. Keeps pack together. Less likelihood of cars taking 'close passes'. More visibility and quicker pass for cars.
Another thing to do when the road demands it (lots of traffic, narrow lanes, etc), is to split big groups into packs of 2x3s or 2x4s.
Or if the road really demands it, go single file.
This sounds like the 'how fast should i be riding uphill in a group' question... 'how long is a piece of string'... or 'how comfortable is my saddle'
Another thing to do when the road demands it (lots of traffic, narrow lanes, etc), is to split big groups into packs of 2x3s or 2x4s.
Or if the road really demands it, go single file.
This sounds like the 'how fast should i be riding uphill in a group' question... 'how long is a piece of string'... or 'how comfortable is my saddle'
#19
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First, stick with what you state law allows. Superdex: Colorado law does not specify single file - rather it says riders traveling two-abreast shall not impede the flow of traffic and must stay in a single lane - Colorado Bike Law | Colorado Law.
Some pseudo-scientific studies suggest that it takes about 80 percent longer for a car to pass a single file group of cyclists vs. double file.
Studies on crash statistics show that solo riders are more likely to be hit than groups. The data is not clear on whether double file is safer than single file, though riding double file does increase the visibility of the group.
As for waving cars around, there are arguments for and against. FB pointed out the against arguments. And any riders pulling off should check that the road is clear before doing so.
Some pseudo-scientific studies suggest that it takes about 80 percent longer for a car to pass a single file group of cyclists vs. double file.
Studies on crash statistics show that solo riders are more likely to be hit than groups. The data is not clear on whether double file is safer than single file, though riding double file does increase the visibility of the group.
As for waving cars around, there are arguments for and against. FB pointed out the against arguments. And any riders pulling off should check that the road is clear before doing so.
#20
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Our approach is usually 2-up then singlefile when on busy road -- probably been doing it that way for decades. However, I'm questioning that lately and posted trying to find experts to see if SOP has changed.
I do notice that going singlefile LOOKS nicer to drivers and maybe that's the main thing, but it greatly lengthens their time needed to pass -- often enough to prevent a pass based on traffic levels. So I'm wondering if it's now considered NOT the thing.
More cars can pass easier with 2-up. So... There's the appearance of courtesy then there's actual courtesy.
I wonder if the only advantage of singlefile is a car-friendlier visual. Functionally, its only difference seems to be that it invites the INSANELY UNDESIRABLE squeeze-play. If no head-on car is around then a car can just as easily move over an entire lane to avoid a compact 2-up as it can to pass a singlefile.
(Sorry about posting in the wrong place! I avoided Road Cycling because I saw only questions about bike-shopping.)
I do notice that going singlefile LOOKS nicer to drivers and maybe that's the main thing, but it greatly lengthens their time needed to pass -- often enough to prevent a pass based on traffic levels. So I'm wondering if it's now considered NOT the thing.
More cars can pass easier with 2-up. So... There's the appearance of courtesy then there's actual courtesy.
I wonder if the only advantage of singlefile is a car-friendlier visual. Functionally, its only difference seems to be that it invites the INSANELY UNDESIRABLE squeeze-play. If no head-on car is around then a car can just as easily move over an entire lane to avoid a compact 2-up as it can to pass a singlefile.
(Sorry about posting in the wrong place! I avoided Road Cycling because I saw only questions about bike-shopping.)
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I prefer 2 up. Not as long of a pace line, and if the road has terrible sightlines, there's nothing wrong with being a little aggressive in taking the lane until sightlines improve. You don't need motorists to try and squeeze by around a blind corner and cause an accident. And if they insist on doing so, at least a 2 up pace line is half as long as a single file.
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It's easy to say not riding that rode but IMO if you have to ask the answer is two abreast.
It sounds like the very road you are describing is why we have such laws allowing us to do two abreast.
Better to piss a few cars off than let them mirror you or run you you guys of the road.
I didn't even believe this until I just looked it up. Crazy. Any other states you know with this law?
The law in AZ to get around what CO seems to do is once there are 5 cars behind we must pull off and let them pass. I've never seen this happen.
It sounds like the very road you are describing is why we have such laws allowing us to do two abreast.
Better to piss a few cars off than let them mirror you or run you you guys of the road.
I didn't even believe this until I just looked it up. Crazy. Any other states you know with this law?
The law in AZ to get around what CO seems to do is once there are 5 cars behind we must pull off and let them pass. I've never seen this happen.
Last edited by Corbin; 06-21-16 at 10:21 AM.
#25
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It's best to letthemmake their own decisions
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You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.