Heathpack 

I actually am aware that he has raced previously. Which was why the ignorance of his statement was so striking. Usac points upgrade system has nothing to do with USAC assigning a relative "validity" score to the types of races they put on. If you asked USAC if TTs or individual pursuit were races, they'd no doubt say hell yeah. Just interesting how even experienced racing people don't really think about & understand the world of racing.

Of course people who argue that TTs or tris or whatever kind of race are not 'real' have got to realize that beyond saying something factually untrue, they are saying something insulting to people who specialize in those types of races & perform at a competitive level. It's so easy to get wrapped up in what you yourself do and how much you like it, that you can't relate to what others do. But that does not mean that the other guys racing is invalid.

The other day I was at my fitters working on my TT fit for my "less than a crit" type of racing. Bobby Lea pops his head in to ask a quick question. What, do we tell him next that @merlinextralight's cat 3 masters crit racing is more of a real race than his Olympic individual event on the track? Its just a little absurd.

f4rrest

Commuter racer. Apparently some think so if the look is involved.

StanSeven

I'm undefeated in commuter racing. It's nice to make my own rules which helps stay that way.

sbxx1985 

Understanding the time and effort required to be competitive, I've returned to the recreational rider. You can't just roll in and be competitive without the training. I hate the structured training. Cat 4 for life.

SpeshulEd 

In the words of an old Twin Six jersey pocket...

"We don't need to race, to be racers!"

kbarch

That's what it seems to have been about, but I'm not sure that's where it was supposed to go.

Perhaps a less contentious question would have been: to what extent do you compete when you ride? To which the answers might have been "not at all," "only against taxis/other commuters," "against the clock," or in various forms of sanctioned racing, with a greater or lesser degree of commitment.

Bandera

It couldn't be Simpler.

If you have completed a Sanctioned Racing Event in any of the Disciplines of:

Track, Road, Cyclocross, Mountain Bike, BMX or Triathlon:

You were/are a Bicycle Racer.

If Not, You are Not.

-Bandera

TMonk

yep, it's pretty basic. and anyone who finds even occasional fleeting joy in cat 6 racing (hey we all do sometimes) should try a sanctioned race for fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Trying out racing also couldn't be simpler:

1) Register
2) Pin number
3) Ride in circles

And the pervasive step 4):

Try to stay loose and be safe!

StanSeven

The responses showdown lots of different views. To me racing involves competition between yourself and others. It's a comparison of your best against the best of others. While it can be you against the clock, yourself, other commuters, or whstever, that's not true racing in my mind. Racing is matching you against competitors in the same conditions and situation.

merlinextraligh

I didn't mean to insult you or anyone or diminish your chosen endeavor. I've done TT at states and Masters Nationals, and understand appreciate the effort it takes to do it well.

My original post, which started this sub text of this thread is that doing one bike leg of a tri is a very different animal than mass start bike racing. I doubt you disagree with that.

My point is it that it's a different animal. You seem to be inferring a perceived diss, that I didn't make.

Me thinks the lady doth protest too much

badger1

This. I too don't understand the 'issues' here.

seypat

Nobody has answered regarding the events I listed. Would these be considered races? You've got entry fees, placings and prize money. However, there are no bibs, officials or published results. Racing or riding?

noodle soup

I mostly agree, but duathlons and tryathlons are stretching it a bit. They are definitely races, but not a bike race.

My interpretation of the OP's guestion was specific to bicycle races. The triathletes I know would not say they are cyclists, but rather triathletes or duathletes.

smarkinson

What a noob. He's even signed up for the monthly running challenge. Running is stoopid. Just ask Froomey.

Heathpack 

Oh yes. You say "Notably, Time trials do not count as races for the purpose of earning upgrade points under USA Cycling Regulations.

If you think of your self as a bike racer because you've done a triathlon, or a few tt's, you're going to be in for a surprise in your first crit" and I protest too much?

In the case of TTs, points have nothing to do with whether USAC considers something a race.

And I am someone who has done a "few" TTs- 15 to be exact- including making two state podiums in my first year of racing-. Sorry I guess you're right, I'm just overly sensitive that I am dissed by you saying that I'm not to be considered a racer. Yet you are? Why, exactly? Because you race crits and I race TTs? What are the dividing lines here?You are a racers because you're a cat 3 master guy who races crits and has been to states and nationals in the TT? But I'm not because I've only raced a few TTs, despite doing well?

Not everybody that races TTs is delusional, believing we'd make great crit racers. Most of us understand the difference between TT efforts & crit efforts. I have very little interest in crits right now, happy to spend my time & intellect cracking the TT nut & racing at as high a level as I can achieve. Sorry but you are just flat wrong to tell me that I should not consider myself a bike racer.

This is the type of conversation that could only happen in the 41- people who don't enter races at all considering themselves to be racing & people entering races and doing well being told by others that they are not bike racers at all.

Machka 

Isn't it pretty clear cut ...

If you have ever participated in an official bicycle race of some sort, you are (or were) a racer.

If you have never participated in an official bicycle race of some sort, you are not a racer, nor have you ever been a racer. You're just a cyclist. Nothing wrong with that, but there it is.

PepeM

Maybe that's why he decided to run the rest of the course: to complete his Strava goal. It all makes sense now.

Bah Humbug

There's a whole world of racing outside of bicycles. Running, swimming, rowing...

kbarch

All this discussion about what makes one technically or officially a racer aside, the original post seemed to be talking about something COMPLETELY different. The OP mentioned a tendency to "go all out." Let's consider that for a moment. I can understand the reluctance to put the question in terms of fast vs slow riding because that's a description of the results rather than the intention, and intention seems to be the key. Who knows? Maybe when the guy goes "all out" he can only hit 14 mph on the flats, and I don't think the 41 would allow him to call that fast. But that's beside the point

One can commute, go for a casual or errand bicycle ride completely indifferent to ones rate of progress, or one can try to go fast, aim to reach point B and intermediate points expeditiously, and pay special attention to overtaking others. The former is like taking a walk. The latter is more like running, but it's not like "going for a run," which is generally a disciplined activity. It's more like "racing about," an impromptu approach to riding fast.

If that's what the OP was talking about (which it seemed to be, as it was in context of commuting and similar solo rides), I think it was an interesting question, whatever you want to call that kind of riding. For discussion purposes, let's call it "rushing." And interestingly enough, as most participants in mass-start races realize, rushing and racing have little in common aside from speed - in fact, rushing is one of the most reliable ways of losing. Rushing is generally an approach to solo riding, but it might also be used to describe "hammerfests."

So if the question was asked, "are you a rider, or are you a rusher?," again, I'd have to answer "both, or neither, depending on how you look at it." When I go out for a morning ride, I'm generally in no hurry, but I do have a tendency to rush up hills and along rollers, and when riding in the park, I would make a point of chasing other riders down. By contrast, I have to force myself to practice sprints on flats, and even when I was running late, I wouldn't rush through city traffic on the way home from the park.

merlinextraligh

Whoosh.

My point, which for some reason set you off, is that mass start bike races are different from the bike leg of a Triathlon.

You've still yet to clash with that.

zymphad

Do not have the time, or the determination to suffer the pain to be competition ready. I ride just to keep my sanity, destress and keep the fatness away.