musicmaster

To start, I'm a marathon runner and have been running 70+ mile weeks for over 10 years. I recently moved to CO, I've been biking 1-2x per week as cross training.

As I have years of aerobic base training from running, I'm finding it hard to really judge effort while cycling via heart rate as my HR stays pretty low the entire time. Also, the consistent rolling hills or mountain climbs here in CO seem to make it difficult to judge.

I was thinking of purchasing on the crank-based power meters (The 4iiii) for around $350.

For those who have them, do you find they are worth the cost?

I'll either be doing an Oly Distance or Half Ironman next spring.

I'm trying to base my current rides off of PE, which isn't bad on the flat sections. Rolling hills though, I seem to overdo it early on, and on the long climbs (4-5 miles at 5-7%) I just bike and it's hard to tell how hard I'm going and my only performance indicator is to compare times from the same climb each time to see if there's improvement.

My thought behind a PM is that I'd be able to have a consistent workout regardless of wind/elevation/climb. If I know my workout level is around 170W of something, I'd be able keep that specific wattage for my intervals or "tempo" on the bike without being concerned about the route I take.

Heart rate training has been a bit of a hit or miss. Because of my huge aerobic base from running, it takes a lot to get my HR up. I often find my legs give out well before i'm anywhere near my running HR, thus I was thinking a power meter would be a better gauge of how I'm training and to base workout on.

Seattle Forrest

A power meter is fantastic for pacing - as long as you're willing to put in a little bit of time on the computer reviewing the data. It's also great for flattening hills, like you described.

hsuehhwa

Based on the level of training and understanding you already have, IMO a power meter will definitely help.

PepeM

I'd say it will help, but for those long steady efforts you're trying to do heart rate should also be adequate (although not as good as the power meter.)

bikepro

Get and read "Training and Racing with a Power Meter", by Allen and Coggan, before you decide.

99Klein 

A power meter will give you the ability to suffer. You still have to be willing to suffer, but it will let you know when you're not working hard enough (which for me was just about all the time.)

Power meters will also let you know if you're going easy enough on recovery days (you're probably not.)

It's great for training. Find your FTP, set up zones, print and put on stem if you want, find a training plan and ride. Review your data, track your data...

It also gives you a way to monitor yourself on hard group rides.

It's way more consistent than hart rate, as HR can change day to day, with rest or diet.

It's make me quite a bit stronger this season. I went with a Quarq Elsa, which is stupid expensive, and still believe it's worth every penny.

JohnJ80

A power meter is a fantastic training aid. With it, you can tell if you are getting stronger, if you are slacking, if you are being efficient in your pedaling. Even though cycling has been studied extensively, the various methods of estimating caloric burn from miles/elevation/heart rate are all over the map varying by even up to 100% from what my power meters says I actually put into the cranks.

I rode with a power meter for the first time this season and I learned a tremendous amount about thinks like pedaling efficiency as well as overall efficiency. The thing doesn't lie...

So, yes, I'd say that it's worth the money and was very helpful to me. I bought a stages unit but I don't think it matters much anymore. There are enough of them out there that they are becoming a commodity. Pick the one you like. DCRainmaker has a comprehensive review of almost every power meter out there and he compares them as well as giving his thoughts on which one to buy and why.

J.

rpenmanparker 

Why should your legs give out way before your heart gets up to a training rate, aerobic base or not? After all, your legs have a base conditioning too, right? Not the same as cycling, but certainly they are well toned. I'm wondering whether you are mashing at very low cadence, which could be very tiring for a novice cyclist. If your cadence would be 90-100 rpm, your heart rate will be more elevated than for the same power output at 60 rpm, AND your legs would not be nearly as stressed at that power output. If you are pedaling more slowly than 90-100 rpm, give a higher cadence a try and see if it helps.

PepeM

Care to share what you learned about those two?

PepeM

The whole 'can't get my heart rate up' does sound weird. I don't care who you are, if you go hard enough your heart rate will go up.

Dean V

I am sure he can get his heart rate up, just not to the levels he is used to running.
This is fairly normal for a runner as cycling is more leg dependant and it also takes some time to develop and condition the muscles required for cycling. Until you get to that point you just don't have the leg strength/endurance to load the aerobic system as much as you could running.
+1 on getting a power meter.

musicmaster

Running:
My training pace for running is around 7:15/mile and around 165bpm. My marathon pace (6:00/mile) is around 180-185bpm. Short sprints (like 1/4 mile) I can get up to 200bpm.

Cycling
If I'm on a flat surface, no wind going like 18-20mph, my heart rate is around 130-140. Even an extended climb (Golden, CO's lookout mountain) I was hitting only 160. The only time I've gotten above 170 on the bike is with sprinting. If I try to say go harder up the mountain, my legs give out half way through.

Distance running uses your legs more as a spring -- sprinting and running up hills are what generate power for running. So while my legs are strong and toned for a marathon, a lot of power-intense riding puts me in the red well before I'm there aerobically.

That's why I'm looking at power meters. I figure that they would give a better picture of my training and ability and I can begin to structure my rides and workouts around it.

Seattle Forrest

How long have you been riding? How often do you shift gears? Do you have a cadence sensor?

I don't mean to imply that you're dumb or anything. New cyclists almost never shift enough. My HR is higher running than cycling too, so is everybody's, but it's possible you're making it harder on yourself by being in the wrong gear. I mean, on the flat especially, you can move the burden back and forth between your aerobic system and leg strength, at least to a degree. And it sounds a little bit like you're mashing.

Doge

You being a runner, have a very good idea of long term effort. What you likely do not know is in cycling how long/how much lactic acid your legs can handle and how it equates to running HR (cycling is lower).
It might be good to start recording. PM are very popular and to suggest you can do as well without them generally starts arguments. But there are some (rare) that do just fine without them. They tend to be the type that can guess their HR, effort, speed and power based on experience. For someone like you I think recording early would be good.

I'm not thinking they are as important in racing, or so much for experienced trained riders.

PepeM

Try going 22-24mph then. As others have alluded to, your cadence might be too low.

As for your original question:

I have one and I think it is worth the cost.

Seattle Forrest

What do you think about Stryd? Is it gonna catch on?

caloso

It will help you if you are willing to implement a plan and interpret the data (or hire someone to do it for you). If you just ride around with it, then no, not really.

Dean V

Try this forum. It will much more info and informed people on the sort of things you want to know.
Slowtwitch Forums: Triathlon Forum

Doge

Or this sub forum: https://www.bikeforums.net/33-road-bi...ents-here.html

Triathlons and Triathletes are a different thing, although if you are to continue running might be closer to where you are. If your focus is cycling, the slowtwitch view of the world is ... slowtwitch.

rpenmanparker 

You didn't answer the question about your cadence. It really matters. Especially when climbing.

Doge

You just have to be of the opinion suffering makes you faster.

JohnJ80

Sure.

I learned how much easier it is to up cadence to get more power than push harder. I already knew this but seeing the numbers was astounding.

I learned about proper pedaling technique and how as I changed things I was able to see the effect on my power output.

I learned a lot about the effect of various position changes on the bike with respect to aerodynamics - what changes I made vs the perceived effort in pedaling and the power output.

I learned a lot about how much and when I was slacking off (especially on slight downhill grades).

The bottom line is you can try things and instantly tell if they have a positive or negative effect on your power output. The speedy feedback is really useful.


J.

Seattle Forrest

Of course anyone can ride a bike well without a power meter. That's not even a little bit controversial. But power meters are incredibly useful tools for cyclists, especially competitive ones. That's not even a little bit controversial, either.

Doge

Here are examples.
Rider is known to be able to hold 300W.

Training ride starts and...
A Rider feels weak and is not holding 300W.
Should they push harder to make that 300W?
B Rider is feeling good and can push 320W.
Should they back off and do 300W?

Race starts and...
Rider will need to go over 300W to not get dropped.
Does rider watch the PM or does rider watch the wheel in front.

I think PMs are good reporting tools, but what to do with that information is still, debatable. So far in hiring the best coaches I can find the recommendations are listen to your body. I bought 5 (five) PMs this year. I think they are valuable, but more as a recording device, not so much a training one.

Seattle Forrest

Ok, we can all come up with fictional examples of nothing until the cows come home. That doesn't really mean anything.