Blizzie

I've been looking at purchasing a Giant Defy Advanced 2 and went to the LBS to try it out today. Until the store pointed it out, I did not realize that the braking is not full hydraulic. Giant has a hybrid system.. which I do not know the name of and it does not seem to be listed in the specs. As far as I know the shifters are mechanical and connect to the hybrid converter, which from that point on is hydraulic down to the disc brakes. The hybrid converter component sits where the bike stem is. I saw a picture of it on another thread, post #410 on the "Giant Riders Unite! Show off your Giant!" (I can't post URLs yet).

Does anyone have experience with this system and how well it performs? Should I be concerned with long term component compatibility or is this bike a solid purchase? Those Shimano RS505 also make me a little nervous with its shape.

Edit: I can post links now. Here's the thread with the system; last picture.
https://www.bikeforums.net/19367947-post410.html

WhyFi

Unless I'm mistaken, the Contend has the hybrid system on the stem, not the Defy. Last year, the Defy A 2 had mechanical brakes, but were replaced with hydro for the 2017 model year.

Blizzie

The Defy Advanced at my LBS had the hybrid system on them. They mentioned that the Defy Advanced line is the highest level to use them. They're gone one step up on the Defy Advanced Pro.

WhyFi

Not according to the Giant website, not on the A2, at least. Maybe the A3 has the hybrid system, but both the A1 and A2 have RS505 levers (I'm shopping them now, too).

WhyFi

Yeah - the Defy A3 has the hybrid system (Giant Conduct). Your LBS salesperson is wrong about the A2 and A1.

Blizzie

Hmm.. interesting. Let me give them a call and see. They only had the A3 built for me to try in Medium. I didn't get a chance to see the A2 and A1 in person.

WhyFi

Brakes: Shimano RS505, hydraulic disc, 160mm

vs

Brakes: Giant Conduct, hydraulic, 160mm

Blizzie

I just called the LBS and the A2 and A1 do not have the hybrid system; only does A3 does. Some misinformation but it's good news for me since the A2 I want will not have it.

Thank you so much for clarifying this for me.

Now to think about those RS505 shifters..

WhyFi

No prob - like I said, I'm shopping the same bikes (with the slim possibility of jumping up to the Advanced Pro 1 - I kinda want the wheels). My LBS has a red DA2 on display - might see about taking that out for a spin next week or so (though I'd opt for the black/white/blue, 'cause that red is kinda... weird) and see how it goes.

Post pics if/when!

2wheellurker

I actually rode the Contend SL1 today and the Advanced 2 back to back. I was really impressed with the hybrid system. I'm not sure I could really tell much of a difference. Caveat I'm a newer rider so I'm sure someone more experienced might be able to tell. The Advanced felt awesome though overall. Much lighter. I wish my LBS discounted even a little, they would have had a sale.

Blizzie

I'm also a new to road bikes but it's just another unnecessary component to me. If I get hydraulics, I want full hydraulics and not have the mechanical feel when braking. You can feel when you pull the brake lever that the full hydraulics is much smoother.

Yeah, I really like the feel of the Advanced.

Banzai

Oh, good. I hate hybrids. Glad that Giant had developed a plan to break them. I hope it's effective.

Cyclist0108

Yeah, get a Ritchey Brakeaway Cross

zymphad

Heh, I saw something about TRP's hybrid system, wasn't sure what it was, it used standard mineral oil.

dbf909

I've been looking at some Giant Road Bikes as well. I've ridden: Contend SL Disc 2, Contend SL Disc 1, Defy Advanced 3, and the Defy Advanced 2. Unfortunately all were at different LBSs since hardly anyone around me stocks Medium frames...

All are Disc brakes - the Contend SL Disc 1 and the Defy Advanced 3 have the "Conduct" hybrid braking system. The Contend SL Disc 2 has mechanical discs and the Defy Advanced 2 has full hydraulic brakes. The price range on all four of these is $1000 - $2000.

All three systems seem to function very well. The hybrid system feels pretty good but not as smooth as the full hydraulic. Giant's main thing with the hybrid system is that you can upgrade the levers without having to use hydraulic specific ones. I am not looking for a bike to upgrade so this is really no value to me. It does feel a bit better than the pure mechanical but as noted earlier it still has some level of cable drag/friction.

The downsides of this system for me are: 1) it adds a bit of weight, 2) it adds complexity, 3) it is a proprietary system that is not used on many models (2 that I know of) so I am concerned about longevity both from a function and market standpoint, 4) it takes up a bit of space on the handlebars, and 5) proprietary stem cannot be replaced with shorter or longer ones (fit).

So I've pretty much decided to avoid it for now. I'll purchase a bike with mechanical disc brakes or possibly calipers if I find a compelling deal for a used bike. I'll ride it for a while and then one day purchase a higher level Carbon Fiber bike with full hydraulic brakes and better groupset. Right now, I'm leaning heavily toward the Contend SL Disc 2 if I go new.

By the way, the Defy Advanced 3 with the hybrid brakes and Carbon Fiber frame was only 1lb 8oz lighter than the Contend SL Disc 2 Al... Both Tiagra groupset. The Defy is $550 more than the Contend.

San Pedro

In some countries the Defy Advanced 2 comes with the hybrid system, like here in Japan. I've heard mixed things about the Shimano 105 equivalent brifters for hydro brakes, so that might something to consider too. With the Giant system you would be locked into Giant stems, but they do make them in different sizes.

Personally, I'd go with the prettiest bike in my price range.

zymphad

https://www.trpbrakes.com/category.p...1198&catid=206

Works with SRAM/Shimano cable pull levers. I think it sounds interesting, so you don't have ugly looking hydraulisk levers.

dbf909

If I could get different length stems from Giant, that might affect my decision. However, I inquired at 3 local LBS Giant dealers and they all said after some research in their "systems" that there were no compatible stems available from Giant other than the one that came on it.

That's not to say that they are not wrong or unable to find them. It just doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling that it will be well supported going forward.

I do agree that the Contend SL Disc 1 is an awesome looking bike - I love the color much more than the 2.

WhyFi

Unless I'm mistaken, the converter just takes the place of the stem's faceplate. The stem itself is a Giant Connect, so you should be able to order any size you need for $30 and bolt the converter on to it.

dbf909

That would make sense from a mfg standpoint. Why create a proprietary stem unless there is some specific design requirement?

If it really is a standard Giant stem with the master cylinder bolted on in place of the faceplate then my already declining confidence in my local Giant dealers' knowledge and abilities are even further reduced. You would think that this is something that they should know... However, three different "techs" at 3 different locations have told me differently. Maybe it is still too new for them to know much about it???

Anyway, from an engineering perspective, the design and implementation is pretty elegant and fulfills Giant's requirements as a manufacturer well - providing flexibility to use a range of hydraulic brakes with a range of mechanical levers thus reducing cost. From a marketing view, they can provide hydraulic disc brakes on bikes at a price point lower than before. It does work nicely on the couple of bikes I've tested.

However, not being an early adopter, and not wanting to drop $1300 or more on my next (first in quite a while modern road) bike, I'll probably stay under $1000 (hopefully well under for a used bike) and go with mechanical discs or calipers for now. The next bike after that will possibly be a $2500 or more machine with lots of cool stuff on it (assuming I continue to pursue road riding).