andr0id

Dude, chill...

As long as it is Ti or Carbon fiber weights, it is OK.

You're acting like somebody is suggesting used tungsten, lead or depleted uranium...

gurk700

Hater is when people don't try something and talk ***** about it anyway.

merlinextraligh

I'll grant you that I can feel a difference with an out of round, or poorly mounted tubular. But I've never felt a need to balance a good quality, properly mounted tubular.

As for feeling 1 gram, the slugs used in the speed balance system being touted weigh 2.5 grams

FlashBazbo

Okay, on further reflection, I think my previous post about balancing tubeless wheels/tires has raised a concern. If the wheel is a carbon wheel, will the sealant that fills the holes drilled to balance the wheel weigh more than the carbon that was drilled out of the holes? If it does, it seems that the balance would only get worse. Then, additional holes drilled to relieve the problem would fill with still more heavy sealant. Then more. Then more. There's a good chance the wheel could become irretrievably imbalanced.

So, if you've got a tubeless setup and it's out of balance? You're in deep crap. Give up. All hope is gone.

gurk700

assuming you use 1 of them..

rpenmanparker 

But, but what about aligning the logo with the valve stem? Isn't that the most important thing?

merlinextraligh

well, the increments in the adjustment are 2.5 grams, so they must think 2.5grams is enough to make a difference.

merlinextraligh

You jest, but there's actually decent reason to do that.

If you always mount the tire in the same relationship to the rim, it makes it easier to find the cause of flats, and where a tube needs patched.

FBinNY 

You can't argue with the plu perfect mentality, so I won't bother.

However, it might pay to consider the difference between bikes and cars, and most of us and pro racers.

If a car has a flat, the entire wheel is changed. Then the wheel is rebalanced at the shop when the new tire is fitted. Pro racers handle flats in a similar way, but the rest of us don't. We change tires on the road, so the benefits of balancing are lost.

However, balancing, like most things isn't black and white. It's a question of degree, and conditions. Decent wheels and tires are pretty well balanced as it is, so add me to those who say they're "within tolerance" and no added effort is called for. However, if a wheel is unusually poorly balanced, and the bike is ridden in areas with high speed descents, then one may want to try to improve things.

One hint is to listen. Under normal conditions, you'll hear pulsed sound changes, in sync with your pedaling. However, when coasting you may hear the pulsing in sync with wheel speed. So, my guideline is that if the normal changes are greater than the coasting changes, you're within the working tolerance.

There's also the question of radial trueness. Even when wheels are very good, the overall wheel/tire combination may not be. IMO radial run out will be more important than balance, so the plu perfect folks might want to focus their efforts where it counts.

gurk700

sure. yes. they must think 2.5 grams must matter.

gurk700

Thank you. Exactly what I mean.

If it's not a problem for you, GREAT! keep riding. obviously some of us benefited from this solution so why sh*t all over it, right?

rpenmanparker 

Damn. There goes balancing the wheels. I guess my mother was right. You can't have it all.

FBinNY 

In all fairness, and based on 50+ years bicycling and in the industry, one reason that folks feel the need to "s**t" (your word) over it is that we've seen small things like this spill out beyond proportion, and become an issue where and when it shouldn't be.

So, while I have no objection to anyone doing ANYTHING they think helps them, I do sometimes feel the need to add some measure of reason, or sense of proportion to the debate, when things get overblown.

79pmooney

Another guy here who doesn't "get" adding weight to the rim. I raced back in the day. I rode the lightest wheels I could make. (Well, almost. I wouldn't put a Mavic Medal d'Or on the rear wheel. A soft aluminum 260 gram rim. And after one season in front, I rebuilt the wheel with the far stronger 290 gram Fiamme Ergal, still a very light rim. Still, those Ergals laced with 15-17 ga spokes and tired with 250 gram sewups were light. Maybe not on a scale; in those days no one paid attention to hub and quick release weights since they didn't matter when it comes to rotating weight.)

No way would I have added an unnecessary gram to those rims. I wanted wheels that "spun up" as easily as possible so I could pull off that acceleration to grab the wheel that was going by. I rode those same wheels down the back side of Smuggler's Notch in Vermont without touching the brakes after the first two corners. Our pace car, a local cop; someone who knows the road, had to do 60 between corners to stay ahead of us. Funny, I have no memory at all of issues with wheel imbalance. (I guess I just wasn't going fast enough.)

Ben

merlinextraligh

Read your first post. It is literally in such absolute terms is why you got the reaction you did.

You ended up saying that in your experience it can make a difference with tubulars, where there's a lot of weight built up at the valve stem.

Pretty big difference from the original absolute statement.

gurk700

For sure and that's why i mentioned if it's not a problem it's not something people should be chasing.

The other side of the coin is that I've been in motorcycle racing in years and I've seen stubborn people go nowhere in decades because of stubbornness and ego while newcomers who are willing to listen and give things a try (within reason as you mentioned) come and pass them within their first year.

gurk700

I should've said it absolutely made a difference for me, you're right.

zymphad

Wouldn't a balanced wheel accelerated faster, rotating weight?

rpenmanparker 

Just having some fun. But here's the thing. What most drivers know about balancing car wheels is that the car rides horribly when a wheel weight comes off or is improperly installed and tire life goes way down with unbalanced wheels. They have seen the problems. What most cyclists know about balancing bike wheels is what they would have read right here. In other words it just isn't a problem. For the few exceptions it is good to know it can be done.

Darth Lefty 

How soon until they're selling tubulars with two perfectly opposed valve stems?

79pmooney

Here in the Pacific northwest, the local slugs weigh a lot more. Never put one on a scale. But then, I have never had the urge to put one of those gooey things on my wheel.

Ben

Dan333SP

And it absolutely will make no difference for the haterz.

FBinNY 

BTW - maybe, that's MAYBE, part of the reason that balancing may now be trendy traces back to history.

BITD - high end double wall rims were joined with an internal sleeve. This sleeve was ALWAYS opposite the valve, so apparently some thought was given to balance. The end result was that whatever imbalance remained was limited to the weight difference between the valve and sleeve, and in any case much less than the weight of the valve, so things were pretty OK, and there wasn't a reason to make them better.

Nowadays, rims are either welded, or built of sheet CF, so all things being pretty equal, we now have imbalance by virtue of the valve, and the amount is greater than before. Whether it's significant or not is something folks will debate, but we do have to accept that things are different now vs. the past.

79pmooney

No. All that matters is total weight and distance from the center of rotation, Those balancing weights are in nearly the worst place you can put them.

This is about inertia. Think about pushing a stopped car to get its speed to 5 mph. It matters no at all whether it is a 1000 lb Formula race car with a 2000 pound bag of lead in the driver's seat or a 3000 pound sedan with the weight spread fairly evenly about the car. When you put your shoulder to the car and push, its the same 3000 pounds.

Ben

woodcraft

With all the rain, we've had a lot of worms coming up on the roadways.

I noticed that I slowed on the last leg of my ride (even being passed by a guy in full Tinkoff kit with a 20 lb spare tire on his middle), & when home discovered the source of the problem: