zymphad

I think it is the experience. If you don't know, then just ride a light bike, and then ride a heavy bike. It does feel different. Even when you add the water bottles and saddle bag.

JBerman

That is interesting, but it's kind of hard to count that as a true A/B test under the premise/conditions given. 6 minutes off the time if you factored ALL things being equal seems like a bit of a stretch for an under hour ride. I mean, that is a 10% improvement for a bike swap from an already decent bike. Does anyone else feel like that is plausible/realistic expectations? And what factors would mostly yield that time savings? The 808 wheels? The stiffness/lightness of the frame? etc...

Doge

Weight on body is better than weight on bike is better than weight on wheels.
The bike moves side to side more than the rider, gets moved up over bumps and all that energy is not recovered.
The wheel move side to side more than the bike, and they turn right and left and spin and you have to recover from bumps, coarse corrections.

Taking a pound off your wheels feels like 5 off the bike.

Drew Eckhardt 

It's total weight.

12strings

Right. I ride in a group with a large strong rider (220-230lbs, 6'3"). His bike is carbon fiber with ultegra, probably 18lbs. He can leave most of us behind on flat roads, but when the hills come, we catch back up quickly.

rpenmanparker 

I wish I had said that.

rpenmanparker 

I don't know why folks think light weight costs so much. I can easily build a bike with showroom equipment (no cages, pedals, computer) that comes in under 13 lb. The price is about $4,000. Of course the way I do it wouldn't meet some folks standards: Chinese no-label frame and rims, Taiwanese hubs, and so on. But the bike is great and it's light.

JohnDThompson 

Unless you ride competitively, weight shouldn't be a big concern. Lighter bikes are easier to accelerate and go up hills, but heavier bikes can be more durable. And in many cases a light weight bike is more than offset by additional superfluous weight on the rider.

I suspect a large part of the appeal of weight is that it is easy to quantify and thus lends itself well to marketing.

Doge

then introduce yourself to me. Actually not that fast on flats anymore. :-(

Abe_Froman

Erm, the math is telling me you're spending about $3000+ to take 5 or 10 pounds off.

rpenmanparker 

Not really. Are you suggesting I can get a Red equipped carbon bike for $1,000? Show me. Besides I would choose most of the same components and frame anyway. But so what even if you are right? It isn't the $10,000 folks think it costs. That was my point.

JBerman

I'm way too cheap to spend that kind of money on a bike. Then again my house cost $26k. My used bike cost $450 before shipping so I need to keep my purchases relative haha. And I'm pretty sure my bike is very bit as good as half the bikes here.

Abe_Froman

Well fair enough. I'm just making the point that I would be very surprised if any cro-moly steel or aluminium bike for around a $1000 weighed over 23lbs or so.

I paid $800 for my tourer 7 years ago or so, and while i've never weighed it, i'd be surprised if it blew past 20 some pounds with the fenders/pump/pedals/bags stripped off it.

JBerman

My Scott Speedster S20 that I bought used a few years ago was $600 and 19 lbs. It was pretty awesome. I did centuries, 200k's, fast group rides, etc on that bike.. I love the used market.

Spoonrobot 

Abe_Froman

I agree. I'd never buy a new bike again....unless i bought a bare frame and a collection of parts I wanted to put together myself. I do kind of like the look of the campy veloce groupset, and have been thinking about building a bike and set of wheels around it.

But yea, I usually buy a bike or 2 offf craigslist every year...one to commute through the winter on and trash, and another to fix up and refurbish, or last year I bought a 10 speed ultegra carbon bike for $450. Thinking I should have have held onto it.

eja_ bottecchia

The weight that you carry around your gut is far more critical than the weight of the bike. I suppose that at the professional level weight does matter. But I doubt that it matters much at our level.

zymphad

Says you with Colnago C59 and C60.

GlennR

Weight is weight, but most "lighter" bikes are more lively and feel faster.

Doge

~$2,500 difference in cost (cassette, skewers, tires inc) .
If clinchers had an Ultegra (picture it has a 130g cassette) they would be 3100g.
The lighter ones are stiffer @ 1370g.

So $2,700/1670g in the wheels = ~$1.60/gram
Figure 5 year life/$500 year. $10/week. Worth it?
Well of course if $10/week is significant to your budget - no. Otherwise yes.
Clinchers 2960 w Alloy.jpg

ax1370RTR.jpg

rpenmanparker 

Yeah, but my 1,000 g tubulars only cost $500. Whatever weight savings you want to ascribe to these was free. That is hard to beat. My alloy cassette cost $140 and weighs 118 g. The standard road quality tubular tires weigh 250 g each and cost $44 each. The skewers weigh 42 g and cost $30. So total weight of 1,660 g for $770. Not even worth calculating the cost/gram saved. It is just too good.

Doge

I was quoting what others might pay. I think we are agreeing.
I completely believe some Chinese stuff is on par with most other stuff. I don't believe anything is on par with those ax rims. I have the spendy stuff from ENVE, Zipp, Easton, Reynolds RZRs (don't have anymore), Mercury M5T, M5C, Nimble stuff and others. Nothing is at the ax level.
ax rim holes are molded, not drilled. The brake track machined. They have 140kg drive side tension. They are extremely stiff.
No other mfg I know does any of those. And they are near 1lb lighter than your setup.
Is that worth $2,000 more? Depends.

Dean V

But neither of those bikes are light so he is not contradicting himself!

FlashBazbo

I'm familiar with the marketing claims.

kbarch

Light bikes can be enjoyable in their way, but I get a different sense enjoyment from heavier bikes. Once you get them to accelerate, it's like they want to keep accelerating. When they get going, they wanna keep going. Once you wake them up, they are beasts. Light bikes? They are like petulant children sometimes. Sure, it doesn't take so much force to move them, but the moment you stop pushing them, they just quit and sneer at you.

For the same type of bike it is usually so, but in general, not necessarily. My best bike is nearly 20 lbs ready to roll; in every other way it is nicer than my first 16 lb bike was. Don't even have to get into the whole steel vs CF ride quality thing; it has FAR superior shifting and brakes. However, it happened to cost quite a bit more, too.

I don't think we "miss" that, (it's certainly the kind of thing I notice) but it is funny how the conversation always seems to come to seconds in a race or some other summary (and invariably nominal) quantification instead.