Proportionate response to LBS screw up?
04-28-17, 03:32 AM
#27
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COME ON PEOPLE !!!???? a cappuccino ********** 
real cyclists don't need no stinking stuff in their doppio 
real cyclists don't need no stinking stuff in their doppio
04-28-17, 04:24 AM
#28
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I'd go back, not as much to complain as to inform. I'd immediately make it clear that the most they me is a new tube, and maybe a beer by way of apology, or thank you for letting them know, whatever suits them.
Then I'd let the owner or manager take it from there, and see what they're like when the chips are down.
If they respond positively, you've validated that they're a shop to stay with. If they get defensive, you know that they don't like to take responsibility when/if things go sour.
The fact is that stuff happens even to the best of people, it's what they do about it that defines them.
When I was in retail, back in the Bronze Age, we were around the corner from De Robertis, an Italian pastry store. When we screwed up, we'd try to address it on the spot. That meant the customer would have to kill some time. To help we'd send around the corner to have an espresso and pastry on us. It's hard to stay mad while eating a Sfogliatella and sipping good espresso, and people saw that we were sincere in our mia culpas, and went away satisfied.
BTW - we'd do this even when we weren't wrong, and knew we weren't going to be able to totally smooth things over. But here too, it was possible to deliver bad news without people getting upset or angry, as long as we showed that we cared.
Of course, not everyone left happy, but at least the bad cases were few and far between.
Then I'd let the owner or manager take it from there, and see what they're like when the chips are down.
If they respond positively, you've validated that they're a shop to stay with. If they get defensive, you know that they don't like to take responsibility when/if things go sour.
The fact is that stuff happens even to the best of people, it's what they do about it that defines them.
When I was in retail, back in the Bronze Age, we were around the corner from De Robertis, an Italian pastry store. When we screwed up, we'd try to address it on the spot. That meant the customer would have to kill some time. To help we'd send around the corner to have an espresso and pastry on us. It's hard to stay mad while eating a Sfogliatella and sipping good espresso, and people saw that we were sincere in our mia culpas, and went away satisfied.
BTW - we'd do this even when we weren't wrong, and knew we weren't going to be able to totally smooth things over. But here too, it was possible to deliver bad news without people getting upset or angry, as long as we showed that we cared.
Of course, not everyone left happy, but at least the bad cases were few and far between.
Funny you should mention the offer of coffee, FB. A while back I did a "passport rally" visiting all the Ducati dealers in New England, and a fair number of the shops had self-serve espresso machines or coffee (i.e., free). I don't notice that so much in bicycle shops, but the tiny shop around the corner will typically offer me a coffee or soda when I stop in, even if it's just to say "hello." A lot of their customers are very well-heeled and bring in their super-fancy bikes for service, but they only stock Giant. Meanwhile, the bigger shops that get mega traffic and sell all the highest-end bikes have coffee and snack bars with their own registers, and helping oneself to a cup is inconceivable. Guess which shop I bought my last two bikes from.
04-28-17, 06:35 AM
#29
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All of the above. Not a big deal. Let the shop know so they can avoid the same mistake with other customers. They may or may not offer to replace the rim tape.
Learning to do it on your on isn't all that hard. All it takes is a bit of patience and practice. Practice on cheaper wheels, though.
Learning to do it on your on isn't all that hard. All it takes is a bit of patience and practice. Practice on cheaper wheels, though.
04-28-17, 06:49 AM
#30
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Personally, I'd ignore it.
If I was they type that felt the need to notify everyone that their conduct didn't meet my expectations,
I'd be confronting people all day long.
If I was they type that felt the need to notify everyone that their conduct didn't meet my expectations,
I'd be confronting people all day long.
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Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
04-28-17, 09:24 AM
#31
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This is an excellent point and brings up something that had not occurred to me.
I just looked again - it's the original rim tape. So the mechanic didn't remove the tire or replace the tape. The tape shifted when he was adjusting the spokes.
Well, "stuff" happens.
Thanks, I learned something from this thread.
I just looked again - it's the original rim tape. So the mechanic didn't remove the tire or replace the tape. The tape shifted when he was adjusting the spokes.
Well, "stuff" happens.
Thanks, I learned something from this thread.
Before you place any blame on the mechanic, you need to know what kind of a repair they carried out and charged for. If the spoke was replaced without removing the tire (which is often possible and desired by the customer to save money), then I would say the blame can in no way be placed upon the shop. If you are using rubber rim tapes as appears to be the case here, you can expect flats sooner or later. Get a proper rim tape that will not move no matter what.
If they charged full rate for the repair, then they should in part share the blame. I would however still let it slide.
If they charged full rate for the repair, then they should in part share the blame. I would however still let it slide.
04-28-17, 09:30 AM
#32
What happened?
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Aaaah...
See?
We all learned something .
See?
We all learned something .
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04-28-17, 10:11 AM
#33
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BTW, the band-aid trick worked pretty well. Standing on the side of the road, I wasn't at first sure how to deal with the shifted rim tape. It was pretty clear that trying to move it back into place wasn't going to work. I thought about a park tool tire boot, but they are too big to fit in the rim well and not easily cut down to size. I thought about a dollar bill, but then I noticed the band aids in my saddle bag.... Obviously, they were there for a different reason, but they did the job.
Throwing a few of those "tough" fabric band aids in your saddle bag is not a bad idea.
Throwing a few of those "tough" fabric band aids in your saddle bag is not a bad idea.
04-28-17, 10:43 AM
#34
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04-28-17, 12:07 PM
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By the way, I do have dial gauges, but do quite as well without them...using a truing stand.
04-28-17, 12:44 PM
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I would also say you need to inform the shop. The owner/manager may be very conscientious but he can't watch over every single service that is being done so if one of his employees did something sloppy, he needs to know about it.
And always be calm, state the facts, and request fair compensation, which sounds like maybe a new tube.
This is also a good opportunity to judge the owner/manager. How they respond is a good indication of whether or not they are worth supporting.
And always be calm, state the facts, and request fair compensation, which sounds like maybe a new tube.
This is also a good opportunity to judge the owner/manager. How they respond is a good indication of whether or not they are worth supporting.
04-28-17, 12:51 PM
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I had a similar thing happen at a shop I have patronized for 30 yrs. A mechanic actually failed to install rim tape. It was a wheel that "technically" did not require rim tape. But, it had always had rim tape and the bill indicated that they had put it in. I went back because I thought that they should know that they were not on top of things. I know the owner and I thought it would be helpful to him to be aware of it. BTW, it cost me two tubes. They put the rim tape in at no charge. Well, actually they put it in as they should have since I had paid for it.
04-28-17, 01:24 PM
#38
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I'd go back, not as much to complain as to inform. I'd immediately make it clear that the most they me is a new tube, and maybe a beer by way of apology, or thank you for letting them know, whatever suits them.
Then I'd let the owner or manager take it from there, and see what they're like when the chips are down.
If they respond positively, you've validated that they're a shop to stay with. If they get defensive, you know that they don't like to take responsibility when/if things go sour.
The fact is that stuff happens even to the best of people, it's what they do about it that defines them.
Then I'd let the owner or manager take it from there, and see what they're like when the chips are down.
If they respond positively, you've validated that they're a shop to stay with. If they get defensive, you know that they don't like to take responsibility when/if things go sour.
The fact is that stuff happens even to the best of people, it's what they do about it that defines them.
04-28-17, 01:49 PM
#39
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I'd replace the tape myself properly. Never use their shop again, never recommend them, if anyone asked me about the shop, I'd recommend they avoid them.
04-28-17, 03:40 PM
#40
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unlikely the LBS had anything to do with the flat, IMO. especially so, if as the OP stated, they hadn't even removed the tire to fix the spoke and true the wheel. although i can understand the suspicion that they did.
04-28-17, 03:52 PM
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So explain again how the tape moved without the tire being taken off. And how a new spoke was threaded into a nipple without getting at it from the top. That just ain't happening. The tire was taken off, the tape was taken off and not put back on right.
04-28-17, 03:56 PM
#42
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In my defense, I was out on the road when I mistakenly thought that the problem was with newly installed rim tape. I was mostly preoccupied with fixing the problem, getting a tube in there, and getting home before dark.
The originals were rubber rim strips, from when the bike was new. Went to the LBS today to get new velox and a few tubes. All is good.
04-28-17, 04:06 PM
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a) shrug, people make mistakes. I can replace the rim tape and be done with it.
b) go back to the LBS and ask them to put the rim tape on correctly, possibly bringing along the tube with the hole right in the middle of the deformed impression of the spoke hole.
c) (a) or (b), but also find another shop for my repair needs.
(d) buy a truing stand and learn how to repair wheels myself. Self-reliance guarantees that others won't let me down.
That's annoying for sure, but at the same time, surely your time is worth more than an extra trip to the lbs.
Oh, and d. Always d.
04-28-17, 04:07 PM
#44
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OK, I appreciate your measured responses, but to add just one consideration.
I don't actually have any rim tape at the moment. I have to go to an LBS to buy some. I could go to another LBS and buy some or order some from Amazon. I could go to the same LBS and buy some without explaining why, or....
I don't actually have any rim tape at the moment. I have to go to an LBS to buy some. I could go to another LBS and buy some or order some from Amazon. I could go to the same LBS and buy some without explaining why, or....
04-28-17, 04:43 PM
#45
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04-28-17, 04:44 PM
#46
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I just got a wheel back from the LBS, after they fixed a broken spoke and trued the wheel.
Taking the tire off, I find that the rim tape has been put on haphazardly and a little loose. In several places, it has moved to the side, exposing the edges of some spoke holes. The tube had been pierced by one of these edges.
Lacking any other means, I put band aids over the two most-exposed spoke holes, replaced the tube and rode home.
Taking the tire off, I find that the rim tape has been put on haphazardly and a little loose. In several places, it has moved to the side, exposing the edges of some spoke holes. The tube had been pierced by one of these edges.
Lacking any other means, I put band aids over the two most-exposed spoke holes, replaced the tube and rode home.
While the LBS should make things right and replace your tube, driving there and back will cost more than the tube is worth even if you don't value your time. Driving costs me close to $0.50/mile with gas, maintenance, and life remaining assuming 150,000 of my own miles. Tubes are only $3 each in my annual order from the UK.
Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 04-28-17 at 04:49 PM.
04-28-17, 06:04 PM
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The fact is that stuff happens even to the best of people, it's what they do about it that defines them.
When I was in retail, back in the Bronze Age, we were around the corner from De Robertis, an Italian pastry store. When we screwed up, we'd try to address it on the spot. That meant the customer would have to kill some time. To help we'd send around the corner to have an espresso and pastry on us. It's hard to stay mad while eating a Sfogliatella and sipping good espresso, and people saw that we were sincere in our mia culpas, and went away satisfied.
When I was in retail, back in the Bronze Age, we were around the corner from De Robertis, an Italian pastry store. When we screwed up, we'd try to address it on the spot. That meant the customer would have to kill some time. To help we'd send around the corner to have an espresso and pastry on us. It's hard to stay mad while eating a Sfogliatella and sipping good espresso, and people saw that we were sincere in our mia culpas, and went away satisfied.
04-28-17, 06:06 PM
#48
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04-28-17, 06:17 PM
#49
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This thread has evolved a bit, but in a way that reinforces the need to have a conversation with the shop.
It now appears that the shop may have had nothing to do with the problem. If the Op had gone to the shop and raised the issue they would have explained that they never removed the tire and the issue would be put to rest.
OTOH- by being a nice guy and letting it go, the OP would be left with the false impression that the shop messed up, and might have unfairly held it against the shop.
So the takeaway here, is that it always pays to discuss problems in a friendly open minded way. Then you can make decisions based on how that initial conversation goes.
It now appears that the shop may have had nothing to do with the problem. If the Op had gone to the shop and raised the issue they would have explained that they never removed the tire and the issue would be put to rest.
OTOH- by being a nice guy and letting it go, the OP would be left with the false impression that the shop messed up, and might have unfairly held it against the shop.
So the takeaway here, is that it always pays to discuss problems in a friendly open minded way. Then you can make decisions based on how that initial conversation goes.
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Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
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WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
04-28-17, 06:24 PM
#50
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Spoken like a true Texan.
NJ, my jenny.
The only reason you can get them in NJ, is that it's sandwiched between two large Italian communities in neighboring states.
BTW - they're available frozen from a number of sources, but the shipping cost only makes it a good option if buying a bunch for a party or something.
I used to get them from Venieros, near my old stomping grounds. Whenever i was in Manhattan, I'd pick up a few, then go through withdrawal until the next fix. However, A while back I spotted one in my local super market, where they bake them fresh every few days. It's amazingly good, and now I either have to put in miles or use willpower.
NJ, my jenny.
The only reason you can get them in NJ, is that it's sandwiched between two large Italian communities in neighboring states.
BTW - they're available frozen from a number of sources, but the shipping cost only makes it a good option if buying a bunch for a party or something.
I used to get them from Venieros, near my old stomping grounds. Whenever i was in Manhattan, I'd pick up a few, then go through withdrawal until the next fix. However, A while back I spotted one in my local super market, where they bake them fresh every few days. It's amazingly good, and now I either have to put in miles or use willpower.
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Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.