Silly Question - Is Racing Hard?
06-28-17, 10:44 AM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Silly Question - Is Racing Hard?
So, I saw a sign the other day for some races in my area. Have never even been remotely interested in racing...but I'm vaguely interested. How difficult is a Cat 5 race? I don't even exactly have a road bike lol....steel touring bike but fully functional with fast tires.
I've got no illusions about winning of course....but wondering if I should expect to be blown out of the water and laughed off the course if I decide to do it.
This is the link to the race if it matters... https://intelligentsiacup.com/schedule/fulton-st/
I've got no illusions about winning of course....but wondering if I should expect to be blown out of the water and laughed off the course if I decide to do it.
This is the link to the race if it matters... https://intelligentsiacup.com/schedule/fulton-st/
06-28-17, 10:45 AM
#2
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,302
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1447 Post(s)
Liked 724 Times
in
371 Posts
Read the sticky thread on top of the racing forum.
That said, the answer is yes; it's hard.
One of the best sig lines of a poster in the "33" is to the effect it's really hard to be a mediocre bike racer.
Most people find their first Cat 5 crit to be pretty hard, and many get dropped, particularly people that are not used to riding with fast competitive groups.
Some people, however, do very well from the get go.
Even if you're pretty strong, you likely won't be prepared to deal with the accelerations, again if you haven't done competitive group rides.
That said, follow the progression in the sticky thread on top of the racing forum, and you'll likely find your first Cat 5 race much easier.
That said, the answer is yes; it's hard.
One of the best sig lines of a poster in the "33" is to the effect it's really hard to be a mediocre bike racer.
Most people find their first Cat 5 crit to be pretty hard, and many get dropped, particularly people that are not used to riding with fast competitive groups.
Some people, however, do very well from the get go.
Even if you're pretty strong, you likely won't be prepared to deal with the accelerations, again if you haven't done competitive group rides.
That said, follow the progression in the sticky thread on top of the racing forum, and you'll likely find your first Cat 5 race much easier.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
Last edited by merlinextraligh; 06-28-17 at 10:49 AM.
06-28-17, 10:48 AM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,696
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5774 Post(s)
Liked 2,573 Times
in
1,424 Posts
Yes, it's hard. Maybe even harder with Cat 5s who aren't known for superior bike handling skills.
First of all you need the speed to stay with the group, then you need the skill and confidence to ride in close order with others.
First of all you need the speed to stay with the group, then you need the skill and confidence to ride in close order with others.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
06-28-17, 10:49 AM
#4
buy my bikes
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,800
Bikes: my very own customized GUNNAR CrossHairs
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 519 Post(s)
Liked 428 Times
in
249 Posts
it was hard for me to quit racing. probably a different kind of 'hard' than you're asking about.
find a Bob Roll book & read that instead of message boards. that's what racing is about.
cheers.
find a Bob Roll book & read that instead of message boards. that's what racing is about.
cheers.
06-28-17, 10:52 AM
#5
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,302
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1447 Post(s)
Liked 724 Times
in
371 Posts
As a frame of reference, of the people that would be considered "fast" "A" riders in the local recreational club here, I'd bet 75% of them would get dropped in Cat 5 crit.
The only way to find out though is pin on a number. Even if you get dropped the first time, you then know what its going to take to hang the next time.
The only way to find out though is pin on a number. Even if you get dropped the first time, you then know what its going to take to hang the next time.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
06-28-17, 10:53 AM
#6
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I have a sneaking suspicion I don't have any of the necessary attributes at the moment 
06-28-17, 11:05 AM
#7
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,302
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1447 Post(s)
Liked 724 Times
in
371 Posts
Find the training rides that the local racers do. Go out and try to hang on the back of one of those, and that will give you a good idea of where you stand. Do a few of those and when you can hang in the pack, you'll be ready for your first race.
Diving into your first race with little to no pack riding experience increases the likelihood of 1) getting dropped, and 2) losing skin.
Working up by doing progressively faster group rides is IMHO a much better way to start racing than just jumping into the deep end.
And you have one of the most important attributes, the hutzpa to do it.
Diving into your first race with little to no pack riding experience increases the likelihood of 1) getting dropped, and 2) losing skin.
Working up by doing progressively faster group rides is IMHO a much better way to start racing than just jumping into the deep end.
And you have one of the most important attributes, the hutzpa to do it.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
06-28-17, 11:15 AM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 4,444
Bikes: bikes
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2622 Post(s)
Liked 1,429 Times
in
711 Posts
So, I saw a sign the other day for some races in my area. Have never even been remotely interested in racing...but I'm vaguely interested. How difficult is a Cat 5 race? I don't even exactly have a road bike lol....steel touring bike but fully functional with fast tires.
I've got no illusions about winning of course....but wondering if I should expect to be blown out of the water and laughed off the course if I decide to do it.
This is the link to the race if it matters... July 23: Fulton St. (Chicago) ? Intelligentsia Cup powered by SRAM
I've got no illusions about winning of course....but wondering if I should expect to be blown out of the water and laughed off the course if I decide to do it.
This is the link to the race if it matters... July 23: Fulton St. (Chicago) ? Intelligentsia Cup powered by SRAM
Every single bike racer I've ever met has been dropped in a race. And most of them quite a bit in the 5s and 4s. It's part of the curve.
Go do as many group rides as you can to get acclimated (I'm of the strong opinion that group/pack and cornering skills are more important than fitness) but expect a race to not be wholly similar to that experience in regards to difficulty as there will be no regroups, stop signs/lights or anything of the sort to catch a breath.
06-28-17, 01:06 PM
#9
Senior Member
Im also pretty new to cycling. Im an active duty US Marine and consider myself in excellent shape. I thought I would naturally be really fast on a bike when I bought one due to years of performing in the top 1% on my physical fitness tests, and then I discovered Strava and ate a huge slice of humble pie when I saw that I couldn't come even close to some 50+ year olds on some segments. I have discovered that cycling is a very specialist form of physical fitness. It's not hard to ride a bike, but to ride one competitively is a completely different ball game.
06-28-17, 01:10 PM
#10
Senior Member
I've dabbled in racing a bit. It seems that people always think of crits when they discuss racing. Like Merlin giving the example of local "A" riders getting dropped in Cat 5 crits. That's probably the same where I live also, but if these same folks enter a road race they normally finish respectably.
Point is: crit racing is much different than a road race & road races are probably more similar to the hard group rides folks do.
Point is: crit racing is much different than a road race & road races are probably more similar to the hard group rides folks do.
06-28-17, 01:20 PM
#11
Duke Ulysses
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 800
Bikes: An old orange one for dirt, and for the other stuff: a white one, a kinda mint green one, and a black one.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked 175 Times
in
86 Posts
It depends on how deep you are willing to dig. How many times are you willing to turn yourself inside out?
06-28-17, 01:22 PM
#12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
06-28-17, 01:23 PM
#13
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,302
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1447 Post(s)
Liked 724 Times
in
371 Posts
This is the link to the race if it matters... July 23: Fulton St. (Chicago) ? Intelligentsia Cup powered by SRAM
Two pieces of good news. 1) from the looks of the course map, that should be about as easy/safe a crit course as you can have. 2) you've got a month. Do some group rides between now and then ( and some intervals, 30 seconds on and 30 seconds off ).
Then go for it.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
06-28-17, 01:27 PM
#14
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,302
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1447 Post(s)
Liked 724 Times
in
371 Posts
The problem is you likely won't get that chance. If you get gapped in a crit, you'll soon get lapped. And most crits (other than training crits) you get pulled before you get lapped for the safety of the race.
What you really have to handle is the first 5-10 minutes.
Odds are strong the race will start out extremely fast. You'll think there is no way you can possibly hang on. But if you can dig down and hang on for one more minute, then the race will slow down. First obstacle is surviving the initial wave.
And when you think there is no way I can go this fast for 30 minutes, remember everyone else is thinking that too, and it will slow down if you hang long enough.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
06-28-17, 01:34 PM
#15
Senior Member
Its pretty easy. More than likely you'll win first time out and get an automatic upgrade to Cat 1.
06-28-17, 02:03 PM
#16
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I was an OK "Sport" level mountain bike racer in college. Did lots of 20-30 mile road loops training but casually with no structure, just rode a lot. I did a couple of Cat 5 crits and never got dropped from the big group but wasn't in any way able to touch the front guys.
Ultimately stopped racing crits after just a couple - no accidents, just never felt comfortable racing in a giant pack. Too much of a crash risk for me - didn't like the "if someone goes down, everyone goes down" feelings I had. I still ride XC MTB races though and feel comfortable doing that. The few crits were a fun experience though - as stated above just hang on for the initial surge and you'll be there with everyone at the end. Same with XC MTB - everyone starts off at a mad speed and then the pace settles down.
Hoping this experience will gauge your performance somewhat. Some people hate being pack fodder, I don't mind it. I show up to my local Southridge XC MTB race and get a mid-to-back-pack finish every so often cause racing is fun. You can go as hard as you want without worrying about hikers or horseback riders or people coming the wrong way.
XC MTB racing is the way to go if you just want to participate in a race environment but still be OK if you're not living your life around it.
Ultimately stopped racing crits after just a couple - no accidents, just never felt comfortable racing in a giant pack. Too much of a crash risk for me - didn't like the "if someone goes down, everyone goes down" feelings I had. I still ride XC MTB races though and feel comfortable doing that. The few crits were a fun experience though - as stated above just hang on for the initial surge and you'll be there with everyone at the end. Same with XC MTB - everyone starts off at a mad speed and then the pace settles down.
Hoping this experience will gauge your performance somewhat. Some people hate being pack fodder, I don't mind it. I show up to my local Southridge XC MTB race and get a mid-to-back-pack finish every so often cause racing is fun. You can go as hard as you want without worrying about hikers or horseback riders or people coming the wrong way.
XC MTB racing is the way to go if you just want to participate in a race environment but still be OK if you're not living your life around it.
Realistically I'm thinking I'm probably more or less in the same boat. Maybe fast enough to hang with the pack. I don't do any structured riding...but I do ~100 miles a week solo 18-19mph when I'm going reasonably hard. I have some speed in reserve.....but 20+ for miles on end tends to give me knee issues...but I'll manage for 1 race day.
I'm also thinking I may want to wait until I get a bike that weighs some measurable amount less than 30lbs, clipless pedals, etc lol
06-28-17, 02:06 PM
#17
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,302
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1447 Post(s)
Liked 724 Times
in
371 Posts
I'd suggest Gravel racing as another low key approach to racing, and arguably with less physical risk than XC MTB racing.
While there are elite level riders doing gravel races, you can participate in gravel races at about any fitness level, and take it as seriously as you choose.
Gravel racing to me, seem to be the vibe that mountain bike racing was 30 years ago.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
06-28-17, 02:10 PM
#18
Not actually Tmonk
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 14,121
Bikes: road, track, mtb
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2632 Post(s)
Liked 3,147 Times
in
1,656 Posts
Thanks for sharing your perspective @mrchristian. I have the opposite experience as you - road and track racer for 10+ years, started in college. I have a mtb that I ride 1-2x/week for fun, and would really like to try some XC racing.
The danger/risk and high nerves of road racing are slightly less appealing for me, and ultimately I'll be looking for a safer avenue to race bikes. I see myself transitioning to purely track and potentially MTB within a few years. Hell maybe even TT.
Having said that I don't want to scare you away from racing @Abe Froman. It can be incredibly rewarding, emotional and fun too, especially if you get to a level where you have multiple teammates/friends in the same event and you guys can apply yourself to change the outcome of a race. Winning is of course the goal but it doesn't always work, and just trying to race with a plan can be a lot of fun.
The danger/risk and high nerves of road racing are slightly less appealing for me, and ultimately I'll be looking for a safer avenue to race bikes. I see myself transitioning to purely track and potentially MTB within a few years. Hell maybe even TT.
Having said that I don't want to scare you away from racing @Abe Froman. It can be incredibly rewarding, emotional and fun too, especially if you get to a level where you have multiple teammates/friends in the same event and you guys can apply yourself to change the outcome of a race. Winning is of course the goal but it doesn't always work, and just trying to race with a plan can be a lot of fun.
__________________
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
06-28-17, 02:14 PM
#19
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I have to say, I do see a certain appeal to being the almost 40 guy with the steel touring bike that hangs with everybody on carbon fiber in the pack 
06-28-17, 02:18 PM
#20
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,302
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1447 Post(s)
Liked 724 Times
in
371 Posts
Nearest mountain is 3 states away
Realistically I'm thinking I'm probably more or less in the same boat. Maybe fast enough to hang with the pack. I don't do any structured riding...but I do ~100 miles a week solo 18-19mph when I'm going reasonably hard. I have some speed in reserve.....but 20+ for miles on end tends to give me knee issues...but I'll manage for 1 race day.
I'm also thinking I may want to wait until I get a bike that weighs some measurable amount less than 30lbs, clipless pedals, etc lol
Realistically I'm thinking I'm probably more or less in the same boat. Maybe fast enough to hang with the pack. I don't do any structured riding...but I do ~100 miles a week solo 18-19mph when I'm going reasonably hard. I have some speed in reserve.....but 20+ for miles on end tends to give me knee issues...but I'll manage for 1 race day.
I'm also thinking I may want to wait until I get a bike that weighs some measurable amount less than 30lbs, clipless pedals, etc lol
It's the accelerations that you'll likely have difficulty with. You essentially are going to be going absolute full gas for about 30 seconds to a minute out of each turn. So 4 turns a lap 20 laps, that 80 intervals. riding around solo, even at a decent effort just doesn't prepare you for that.
And the worse bike handler you are, or the further you are back the worse the accordion effect and the longer harder you have to sprint each turn.
To get ready for that series of short intervals helps. You can do 30 seconds on 30 seconds off x 10. Try 4 sets of those, and you'll start to have some idea of what you're looking at.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
06-28-17, 02:35 PM
#21
Kit doesn't match
06-28-17, 02:37 PM
#22
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,302
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1447 Post(s)
Liked 724 Times
in
371 Posts
Every time I mention XC racing someone always chimes in with gravel, fatbike, cyclocross, bikepacking or whatever the race flavor of the moment is. Nothing wrong with them but you'll probably only find a few grassroots events that might disappear when the next trend rolls along. Crit racing, XC mountain bike, Downhill (and velodrome if you have one near you) are where you are going to find the most established, regular races.
Depending on where you're at, there are a lot of gravel races, and its growing dramatically. (DK sold out almost instantaneously this year).
Comparing XC MTB to Gravel, I think Gravel has lower "barriers to entry"
Most MTB racing requires some technical bike handling skills, and you have somewhat of a risk of injury.
Most gravel racing is not very technical and thus lower risk.
Also with single track MTB racing if you're slow you're a hindrance to others, which gets old ( you don't want to hold up faster racers, but you don't want to constantly get off the trail to let people pass) no issue with most gravel courses.
Nothing wrong with MTB racing, but I'd argue that gravel is a closer alternative to road racing, and even easier to start out with.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
06-28-17, 02:42 PM
#23
Senior Member
30 min cat 5 crit? Within the first 2 minutes you will be at close to max heart rate and staying there for the rest of the race. There's no slow bits or chance to catch your breath. Yes, it is hard. Harder than any sort of training you will do as the race environment encourages you to push harder than you normally would.
06-28-17, 03:06 PM
#24
Hear myself getting fat
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Inland Northwest
Posts: 754
Bikes: Sir Velo A Sparrow
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 335 Post(s)
Liked 265 Times
in
134 Posts
Please go and race and let us know how your fantasy works out for you. I know I'm not fast, knew I wasn't fast, and went to a couple of Cat 5 races. Confirmed: Not fast. Not fast at all.
Good luck. Hope your ego can handle it.
06-28-17, 03:19 PM
#25
Senior Member
If you do decide to give it a go, it might be worth it to look for a weekly training series in your area and begin there. Intelligentsia Cup is a big event, so there will be more people and they will find more ways to crash.