noodle soup

50/34 with 12/25 11speed cassette FTW.

BradH

I like having a 16 and/or 18 in the middle more than the 11 on the small end.

redlude97

50/36 12-27 gets you essentially the same range and gears with better front shifting and a more useable small ring , what i ran for years on 10 speed. Now running 50/36 11-28 11 speed which is essentially same with the added high gear. If the 12-28 was more readily available I might switch to that instead.
https://www.gear-calculator.com/?GR=D...23,25&UF2=2281

nycphotography

Strava link (to your "most grades")... or BS.

Or what happens when you get to a "not most grade"? You get in the sag car?

TimothyH

Will it work with Di2?


-Tim-

noodle soup

One bike is 50/34, one is 50/39, and the FG is 50x17.

In my area, I rarely need to shift to the small ring.

Doge

Not going to read all that, although I read some. The focus seemed to be on the chain. That is not my concern.
Did it mention frame flex?

It is what the higher tension does to the compression of the chain stay and twisting of the BB. That effect is different based on frame and BB type. Like a PF30 with outer bearings using a 24mm steel spindle with twist less than a BB30 with narrower bearings.


This was a big deal on tandems where the synchronizing rings were smaller. I went to bigger rings and really stiffened things up.

Doge

Actually the 45X12 was an easy setup for the younger kids as they just took parents cassette.
There were and are 52T ring options everywhere. Those are easier to get than non-11T.

A big driver to move was the hot-shot kids getting the Shimano 9000 fronts.
Although I have a Wolf Tooth single on the climbing bike that is rather ugly.
They just look better with the 52T - and shift better too.

Philly215

With a 50 tooth yea. And there are a couple spots on my ride where I outspin it, or am at a really high cadence I guess. But it's rare and you are going so fast at that point don't really care. But with a 52 I guess a 12 would be plenty.

gregf83 

Seems like a red herring. Now you're saying the kids frames were flexing too much with 45 front rings. In their dreams maybe...

Doge

I never said they flexed too much. I said they were concerned about them flexing too much.
Kids dreams are why 120-130lb riders were/are riding SRAM Red and DA9000 Di2. Maybe the thing many don't know is the power of 15+ junior riders is typically there with adults. They lack the endurance, but have all the power. So flex is something some want to get rid of. And concern drives purchases.

There is some noticeable feel-able flex between the big and small ring.
For TTs kids went big rings to minimize tension, use larger cogs in back and get better chain angle.

gregf83 

Frame flex is not an issue for kids in TTs anymore than it's an issue for adults. You might make an argument that frame flex could play a role during a sprint but it's certainly never been demonstrated that it makes a difference.

Using bigger chain rings and bigger cogs in the back improves drivetrain efficiency as shown in the article I linked earlier. That's a valid reason for going bigger. Lowering tension, on the other hand, decreases efficiency so whether you get an overall improvement going bigger isn't clear. At least I didn't notice whether they tested that specific scenario in the article.

FlashBazbo

I hate to join this conversation on the third page, but . . . is ANYONE really concerned about this? Chain tension? (Give me a break.) Are forum members really assailing other people's manhood and cycling bona fides for wanting an 11T? (Give everyone a break.)

A lot of people must like 11T cassettes. They seem to sell an awful lot of them. But they AREN'T mandatory! It is possible to buy cassettes without them. (Problem solved . . . well, except for the excessive tension problem. If a junior can bend a frame using 11T, I will bet they can do it with a 12T.)

Maelochs

Dude, take you r reasonable attitude and healthy dose of common sense somewhere where they are wanted. I need a nine-and-a-half tooth cog for my 67-tooth big ring because with my might guads, I can Flex The Earth as i ride over it, melting the pavement as I go.

400 watts is for hairdryers. I am 15+ ... (stone) and I have so many Watts I could mispronounce them in a movie.

FlashBazbo

But tell us . . . when you experience excessive chain tension (and we know you have), does it flex a carbon frame or snap it like a chicken bone? A gradual warping or a sudden catastrophic total destruction?

Maelochs

Godzilla-sized asplosion .... 300-yard kill-zone .... everything reduces to individual molecules by razor-sharp CF shards.

That's why I am a little obsessive about chain tension.

Doge

Threads that start with emotional words about feelings should be taken in context.
I was buying cassettes this week - for me, for the team and in that found my irritation.

The market/manufactures offer many large cog options. But the small cog non 11T options are - small.

Shimano has a 12-25 DA - I bought that.
I can't buy a 13T 11speed from any of the big mfgs. But I have a guy - so I go there.
I can buy a 14T and I have a lot of those. I will likely use them and change to my 11-32 for the big hill days.

I am and have always been concerned about chain tension. But that was not why I posted about 11T.
Along with chain alignment, I can't find other wheel pictures from the other kids right now, but grinding or making the big gear the middle gear was a *thing*.
Ground TT Cassette.jpg

Sy Reene

Sorry, I don't know. I had a brief interest in trying this, but realized that they don't sell these rings in 4-bolt pattern for Campy, just the older 5-bolt.

Doge

Using the same gear (Big/Little) for a 11T vs a 14T there is 27% more compression on the chain stay. Maybe you feel no flex. I feel flex. My kid feels flex.
27% more will not normally snap anything. But it is 27% more.

As mentioned - take a BB with narrower bearing placement (BB30) and the crank axle is torqued a bit more. The non tension-ed side of the chain gets looser as everything got shorter. You can't see it with the RD cage taking up slack, but you can really see it on a fixed gear or a tandem sync chain.

FlashBazbo

Of course.

SylvainG

That reminds me, when I ride with my wife, I stay in 50/11 to work on my slow twitch muscles.

on the path

Never regretted going to 11 after I switched from standard crank to compact. I run across numerous situations where I'll stay in the small ring and run up and down the cassette. 50x11 is a higher ratio than 53x12. And yes, on downhills there are occasions where I'll be in 50x11 and still pedaling. 11 tooth cog makes total sense to me.

jamesdak 

I'm dealing with this on one long climb I do frequently. I'm thinking of taking my one bike equipped with a Wickwerks 53/34 front and adding a long cage RD so I can run something like a 32T or 34T large with an 11Tor 12T.

This climb is around 30 miles long, with varying degrees of grade. I've been climbing it with a 50/34 and 12-29 setup. I need the 34 to climb it all yet on the descent there's miles of shallow grade where I can't tuck and hold speed. I'd like to have the 53 to run more speed on the downhill sections. The other piece of this puzzle is a race I'm considering where you do this long Cat 1 climb, descend the backside, then come back over it, descend again and then finish out the 113 mile route with a HC climb where you gain over 3000 ft in 6 miles. I'll need all the gearing help I can get on the last piece because there's spots above 20%. It sucks by itself as a workout much less after 100 or so miles with over half of that climbing also. Hmmm, why am I even considering this??

Drew Eckhardt 

No. 52x13 was big enough for Eddy Mercx, and we're not Eddy. I've ridden a 52x42 or 50x13 big gear since the late 1980s, even in the Colorado Rockies.

asgelle

Merckx used the biggest gear available to him at the time just as he would if he were riding today.