raria

So I'm looking for an endurance bike and I've decided CF with 105s is a nice place.

There are two broad options:

1) Name branded at close to $2K (i.e. Giant Defy Advanced 2 or Specialized Roubaix).

2) Quality no-name or low recognition brands for $1K (i.e. Nashbar CF 105, Kestrel RT 1000, BikesDirect myriad of Motobecane options).

So I'm curious if (ignoring the resale value) the name brands are worth the extra $1K in day to day performance.

It seems the low recognition name bikes are nicer than the named brand. i.e. the Kestrel RT 1000 comes in at 16 pounds, the Motobecane Le Champion comes with a nice Ritchie cockpit and is close to 17 pounds. In comparison the Giant is closed to 20 pounds and the Roubaix not far behind.

So does it just come down to if the Spec/Giant framesets are that much better than the Nashbar/Kestrel/Motobecane framesets?

thehammerdog

105 is good stuff but low prices mean cut to other things wheels, hubs, bearings , brakes....just be mindful.
All things being equal unless your seeking fancy pants stuff all mostly the same in a given price point.

motosonic

In my personal experience, there's really not much (if any) difference in the overall quality of the 'name brand' bikes over the others. Diamondback should be another option for you. You can get their Century 4 (2017) for $1649 and that's a heck of a deal for such a nice bike. And if 50CM works for you.. you can get their Century 5 for $2100. There are also corporate discount codes some folks can get for you that'll save you 30-50% off those prices as well. Their podium bikes are also very comfortable, for what it's worth. But to really answer your question, when you buy Trek, Specialized, Giant, a decent part of the price is paying for their name.

cycledogg

If possible, ride before you buy. Some lesser name brand bikes are made of lesser grade material. Also, frame design can make a difference in comfort. The 105 group will the same on all the bikes, but some may not have a "complete" group. So check to make sure the lower price bike has as much or more of the group set. Also, wheels help drive the price of the bike. All in all, the lesser known brand bike may not always be the better price. Do your research on what parts are on each bike and material, not all CF is equal, and try to ride before you buy. I always look at the frame, which has the better material and design.

raria

This is all true except not the case here.

The cheaper bikes seem to have better specs (hard to tell as many brands use their own named components) and definitely lower weights.

raria

I wrench a lot so changing components is easy and cheap for me.

Your point below I crudely highlighted I think is the key question to answer. But I think it's two related questions:

i) Does all the R&D produce a better ride

ii) Do named brands use better CF or use it in a clever way.

WhyFi

I would be skeptical about the lower weight claims. What's more likely is that they have more optimistic weights. You're typically not going to shave grams moving from a 105 crankset to something like a Gossamer and ditto for the brakes. The wheelsets on these bikes are not usually something to write home about, either.

I was shopping DB for a while and noticed that their weights were wonky - the Podium Disc with 105 is spec'd at 16.05 lbs. Not a snowball's chance in hell.

Then the Podium Disc with Ultegra, and keep in mind that this is with the same exact frame and HED Ardennes, supposedly clocks in at 16.25lbs. Going to a lighter group and lighter wheels added .2 lbs

The Century 5 Carbon, with Ultegra and the same wheelset as the 105 Podium, is said to weigh in at a more realistic 19.3 lbs. Now, we know that the Ultegra groupset is going to be about ~250g lighter than 105, so is the Podium frame close to 4lbs lighter? Noooooo.

Take the weights with a huge grain of salt, 'specially if we're talking bikes that are predominantly found via mail order as opposed to being on showroom floors.

shelbyfv

The Cervelo R2 is a great looking 105 bike, IMO. I think they actually do R&D as opposed to copying a popular shape.

Shuffleman

it is heard to say it is the name that drives the price. It is true most comparably priced bikes are similar in quality. A trek with 105 is going to cost roughly the same as a Specialized with 105. The generics usually offer great bargains but keep in mind it is not always an apple to an apple. I think Fuji from Performance is a great deal. You can get bonus points and a great price. However, the price is not all about the frame. The Fuji frame is just as good as any frame out there. Ditto for Nashbar or Ribble. The differences in price start to pop more with mix matching parts. This usually means the bottom bracket, wheels, tires and brakes.
Either way you get a good bike. Most of us are bike snobs, myself included, but would do just as well with an FSA crank vs an Ultegra crank.

raria

I've found if you measure it in the same way as the manufacturer (i.e. sans pedals, right frameset etc.) you get the right weight +- 100grams. Do you think they are BSitting by 4pounds? That would be grounds for returning the bike (at their cost), some very bad negative publiciity and probably some hefty false advertisement fines.

Thanks. That's a nice bike.

And that's why the named brands have such good resale value. But I'm going to keep this bike for a long time so I care less about resale.

ksryder

I bought a nashbar bike once with 105 parts. It was fine, but eventually I upgraded virtually everything - wheels, crank, seatpost, handlebars, stem, headset, saddle... would've probably been better off buying a nicer bike from the outset.

raria

Sure. But unless I'm missing something the $2k 105 name-brand bikes have the same (or similar components) than the $1k 105 no-name bikes.

Maybe I'm missing your point. Are you saying the NB components were: i) not well installed or ii) not designed to work well together.

ksryder

It's hard to say -- I could never quite put my finger on exactly why, but I was just always vaguely dissatisfied with the bike. There was nothing specifically *wrong* with the bike, but also it was just never great.

I don't know exactly what specs are on $2k bikes so I can't comment, and I'm not trying to dissuade you. Just merely offering one data point.

I think it was just the cumulative effect of a lot of generic, mid-quality parts. (Especially the wheels, which rolled like millstones.) A seatpost or a stem might not be very noticeable by itself, but everything added up to = meh.

Eventually the frame broke beyond repair (not because of quality, but bad luck) and I replaced it with a used specialized frame; built up with my own selection of parts and have been perfectly content with it ever since.

WhyFi

I would think that they're 2-3lbs optimistic for a 54/56, but couldn't tell you how or why they arrived at those numbers. That's a part of the point, though - there's no industry-wide standard and they're always going to allow themselves caveats/wiggle room. My main purpose was not to finger-wag at DB specifically, but to point out that weight figures in road cycling are like wattage figures in audio - manufacturers know that those numbers sell, particularly to those less savvy, so they'll find ways to put a positive spin on those numbers. Take them with a heaping helping of salt... or, to put it another way, don't let their weight figures weigh in to your decision too much.

motosonic

There's definitely something smoother (in my opinion) running a full groupset versus mixing and matching parts from different manufacturers. The last bike I sold was a Wilier Gran Turismo that had a Ultegra group with mix and match FSA parts. Now, there was nothing terrible about the setup.. but when I swapped out all of the FSA parts for Ultegra replacements, it just felt better shifting, braking, pedaling. If I ever run a mix and match setup on a bike again, it'll be of my own choosing of the parts, not the manufacturer. But as others have said, this is how bike companies keep prices lower. They'll say "Shimano 105 Groupo" and anyone that knows bikes can easily point out where they swapped out 105 components with non-105. They'll swap out some drivetrain components, put on some ultra cheap wheels and then cheap out on the saddle. All those things combined will bring the price down fairly considerably.

On my Revelator I run a 105/Ultegra mix on the components because I got a killer deal on the parts.. but that mix runs as smoothly as it did when it was just 105.. and the 105 group is phenominal for the price.

Now, I'm no fan of Giant, Specialized or Trek. They're good bikes.. but, I just see too many of them and frankly I find them plain and boring. But, that's just my opinion. Virtually all of these manufacturers are using the same folks to build their frames and materials and engineering vary only slightly.. so, why settle for a bike that disappears in crowds because it's just one of many exactly like it?

cretzloff

I would go for this Ridley Fenix Ultegra, no doubt. I have the alu Fenix with 105 and got it just a hair under $1k.

Ridley Fenix SL Ultegra Road Bike - Performance Exclusive - Performance Bike

You might be able to get it for even less if there’s a 2017 bike sale through their emails ads. There’s been at least one this year already.

Elvo

https://www.mybikeshop.com/collectio...rosecco-sp-105

raria

Thank you to @Elvo as well, but it doesn't simplify things for me. I'm more interested in what group to buy in: 1) close to $2k name branded big R&D budget or 2) close to $1k no name presumably low R&D budget.

CliffordK

As I understand it, the Specialized Roubaix is fundamentally different from other bikes on the market. However, in another thread, a person was comparing a bike with 32mm? tires with the Roubaix with 28mm tires, with the larger tires providing some of the spring that the Roubaix frame provides.

No more Zertz?

On the other hand, perhaps one doesn't really need the extra springiness from the Roubaix.

If money is tight, there are also excellent deals on used bikes, sometimes with even higher quality components. Especially for the "bike mechanic" than can tune up the used bikes.

Most of the big name companies have some sweet looking store brand bikes. Ribble has a few nice looking bikes.

Used CF road bikes are getting quite common now. What might throw me into the new market would be a new offroad carbon fiber bike of one sort or another.

raria

Thanks but sticking with new. Don't want to buy a frame that's been crashed or laid down.

WhyFi

Until you decide to drill down to specific models to compare, I think that it's going to come down to the level of support that you expect/want. If you feel that you're a competent bike mechanic, you have "spare" bikes and at least a moderate amount of patience, then going the LBS route might not carry as much value. If, on the other hand, you're not going to pull out your spoke wrench when a wheel goes out of true, or you're not confident in adjusting your RD when it starts mis-shifting, etc, then the LBS route will hold more value. While a $1k difference in bike cost probably isn't going to show up on your favorite Strava segment, there's something to be said about the joy of a smooth-running bike.

Once you do narrow it down to specific bikes, you can decide on how much certain aspects bring to the party, whether it's the Emonda's light weight, the Renegade's versatility, the TCR's blend of stiffness and compliance, etc. Well, you can weigh these kinds of things with the bikes that you can actually get your hands on - not so much with the more mail-order types.

gettingold

I think you mean e.g., not i.e., haha. Sorry to be a pedant but it reminds me of Get Shorty, one of my favorite movies. I think I eliminated the spicy language, but apologies if something slipped through:

Ray "Bones" Barboni: Let me explain something to you. Momo is dead. Which means that everything he had now belongs to Jimmy Cap, including you. Which also means, that when I speak, I speak for Jimmy. E.g., from now on, you start showing me the proper f***ing respect.
Chili Palmer: "E.g." means "for example". What I think you want to say is "I.e.".
Ray "Bones" Barboni: Bullsh*t! That's short for "ergo".
Chili Palmer: Ask your man.
Bodyguard: To the best of my knowledge, "e.g." means "for example".
Ray "Bones" Barboni: E.g., i.e., f*** you! The point is this: is that, When I say "jump", you say "OK", okay?

gettingold

And by the way, if you are patient and keep checking the Lynskey site you can find a beautiful titanium endurance bike with 105 for slightly over $2k.

Sy Reene

+1. I'm also a bit confused on the original premise. The Kestrel isn't a $1K bike. The Nashbar I don't think is an endurance bike. The name brands' endurance models (eg. Spesh Roubaix sport) all usually now come with disc brakes, while the Nashbar/Kestrel do not. Bikesdirect.. I can't really see any $1K CF 105 bikes on the site. The Sprint CF Pro comes closest I guess at $1200, but with crappy brakes and wheels.

bruce19

If one of theses sizes works, this is a nice deal. Ultegra.......https://www.coloradocyclist.com/coln...a-fulcrum-bike