RoboCheme

Hopefully, this is a simple question.

I'm a runner turned runner/cyclist. It seems that on climbs or even on the flats, I hit a limit with my legs way before my lungs give out. I saw several posts saying that high cadence riding uses more lung power. Should I infer that since my lungs aren't the problem (at this point), I should be mashing more than higher cadence spinning?

SpongeDad

I think its the other way around, depending on what your goal is.

If you're trying to increase your endurance and since your legs are giving out, by which I assume you mean you're hitting your lactic acid threshold, you need to reduce the load by going to lighter gearing and spinning more. This should enable you to ride further at approximately the same speed.

But if your endurance is fine, then working on your power is probably the way to go.

Another way to look at it is to ask yourself what your cadence is. If its low (say below 80rpm, just as an example) dropping a gear and spinning at 90rpm might make you feel a lot more comfortable. If you're spinning at 100rpm or more, then dropping a gear might be counterproductive.

G-Unit

Spin. Mashing is more tiring. Play around with gears until you find a good combo where you aren't spinning so much that you're bouncing around on your seat.

johnny99

Mashing can be more tiring, but only at higher speeds (or accelerations). The biggest problem with mashing is the strain on your knees, which can lead to injuries if you're not real careful.

RoboCheme

Thanks for the comments. I've been spinning because it does seem less tiring, but I was wondering if it wouldn't be better to mash in order to build up leg strength (for a given speed).

Wurm

After you can spin better, you'll start to gain leg strength anyway. Give it time, and just put on the mileage. Miles, miles, miles. At some point you'll be doing the same roads in higher gears and going faster.

Climb hills more often to gain power, and practice standing climbs in a gear 2 or 3 cogs higher that what you would use on the same climb while sitting and spinning.

All the while remembering to pedal in circles as much as possible. For this you'll need clipless pedals and cycling shoes, or toe clips.

Then when you think you've reached some kind of limit overall, go out and ride more often and/or longer and/or faster. If it doesn't hurt sometimes, you won't gain more than where you've been. That's how you build up, or at least how I do.

Voodoo76

Simple question, and a simple answer, be able to do both. You will be better off in this sport in the long run. Robo, I think you are on the right track in pushing a bigger gear now and then to build up some strength (from another runner turned racer).

hi565

When your climbing, if the hill is something that will take you less than a minute or two, just power up it. If you cant then sit down and focus on your pedal stroke and finding that right gear and cadence.

my58vw

Ya doing both is the key...

Take racing for example...
I am a masher, but I can spin at high RPMs for a short time when I need to. I will sit in the peloton at 75 - 80 RPM at say 26 MPH and in a corner I can drop a gear and just spin up to 115 - 125 RPMs in the saddle, then up a gear back to 75 - 80 RPMs recovering. I can also standup though and at 80 RPMs push a higher gear. I have learned though that you need to mix it up, I used to never go about 90 RPMs in a race and my knees told me about that one quick!

ovoleg

Ahh I have been doing a bit more mashing recently. I think I am going to try and mix it up but, maintaining 18mph on high cadence seems to get me to the point where I feel some knee weakness and I have to stop for a second and then start up again. I dont know what it is but I am working on it.

I noticed that going up hills has really increased my power. I am trying to find hills to practice on now. I must get better

DannoXYZ 

"Thanks for the comments. I've been spinning because it does seem less tiring, but I was wondering if it wouldn't be better to mash in order to build up leg strength (for a given speed)."

Both would be best, get a power-meter or something that can graph your pedal-stroke with load X degrees around the crank-rotation. Think about it like this, if you're mashing with all your might and are getting 180lbs force on the pedals for just 120-degrees of rotation, imagine how much faster you can go if can apply that same force around the entire 360-degrees! Your power-output will increase by 3x, yet your legs won't hurt any more because you're not pushing any harder.

Another way to look at it is if you take that same power output now, and apply just 1/3rd the force on the pedals, you push only 60lbs 360-degrees instead of 180-lbs for 120-degrees. You'll generate exactly the same power, but you'll be working out only 1/3rd as hard.

So imagine at that same point where you're maxed out now and your legs are burning like crazy, imagine going 3x as fast with that level of exertion! So do both, learn to spin in circles AND do intervals and really crank up the force on the pedals ALL THE WAY around. You'll find that there's an upper limit to how much strength you can build out of your muscles, about 250lbs is about the maximum force you're gonna get without building up too much and gaining weight like a bodybuilder. At that higher strength, you'll STILL go faster if you can apply that force all the way around 360-degrees.

That's the simplistic explanation. You'd really want to separate the muscle groups that's responsible for each portion of the pedal-stroke and work on them individually, but that's way beyond the tech needed in this thread.

"maintaining 18mph on high cadence seems to get me to the point where I feel some knee weakness and I have to stop for a second and then start up again."

Be careful about spinning with bad form. If you're spinning in triangles, squares or ovals, the circular rotation of the cranks will FORCE your leg into a round motion, which will create a lot of stress on your knees. You might want to loosen the cleats on your shoes to give your knees some flex. Or go to platform pedals with clips and keep the straps loose. Every once in a while when you're spinning down a long straight, pull one leg out and spin 5-10 revolutions one-legged, you'll see exactly where the corners are in your stroke. SLOWLY spin one leg around and learn the neuro-muscular connections that needs to be made in order to spin 360-degrees. Then relax, put both feet back in and do that new motion. You'll be amazed at how much faster you'll go. Eventually, you'll be able to distinguish the various motions and know where the dead spots are.

lilHinault

Awesome post DannoXYZ! Thanks.

2Rodies

I just did a computrainer set up on my TT bike and found my sweat spot is 95 rpm. that is where my pedal stroke is the the most fluid and I make the most power at just below my LT. I can make more power in a bigger gear but my pedal stroke is less fluid and I can't do it for as long. Same with anything above 97rpm, 92-97 is where I was best and 95 is the number I naturally fell into. This was due in part because of the extreme foward position that a TT bike puts you in but I'm going to guess that when we test my road bike that it will be in the high 80's.

Now I've got team mates that seem to be very efficient at lower cadences and bigger gears. I really believe that it's a rider/position thing. Some riders just are better suited for the slower/bigger combo.

SteveE

No! No! No! We must all spin like Lance!

MattWolf

I was in a college cycling class with a VERY short and stocky young lady. Everyone was being taught how to spin, but her little legs refused to go that fast. But gosh they were powerful. She just rode any bike in the highest mashing gear she could. She went on for miles and miles and miles like that. I don't even know if she learned how to shift gears -- there never seemed a need to her. I was in awe.

operator

Prime candidate for the knee replacement club in about 5 years.

ovoleg

I concur. Great post and great advice. Im going to try that later today!!!!

Thanks!!!

RoboCheme

Wow, thanks. I'll try that. Right now pedaling just seems natural, but that does not mean I believe that I'm getting any where close to the optimum output. I think that the only time I get anything out of the upstroke is when I stand going uphill.