Snobby Roadies: explained
08-10-05, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by teamawe
Dont see the comparison as valid.
1. These guys need to keep moving, no time for chit chat they are training.
3. While fitness is surely an aspect, climbing isnt an endurance event, its a technical one.
3. While your buddies seem to be gracious they, nor anyone else, are obligated to be so. And the fact that they arent doesnt in itself make them a snob.
4. They have crashed before and dont want to again, your rock climbing guys only get one mistake, they just havent had it yet.
I'm sure the list could go on.
1. These guys need to keep moving, no time for chit chat they are training.
3. While fitness is surely an aspect, climbing isnt an endurance event, its a technical one.
3. While your buddies seem to be gracious they, nor anyone else, are obligated to be so. And the fact that they arent doesnt in itself make them a snob.
4. They have crashed before and dont want to again, your rock climbing guys only get one mistake, they just havent had it yet.
I'm sure the list could go on.
Keep up the excuses. Some of you guys have a well deserved reputation of being the BMW driver of the cycling world.
08-10-05, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by teamawe
Dont see the comparison as valid.
1. These guys need to keep moving, no time for chit chat they are training.
3. While fitness is surely an aspect, climbing isnt an endurance event, its a technical one.
3. While your buddies seem to be gracious they, nor anyone else, are obligated to be so. And the fact that they arent doesnt in itself make them a snob.
4. They have crashed before and dont want to again, your rock climbing guys only get one mistake, they just havent had it yet.
I'm sure the list could go on.
1. These guys need to keep moving, no time for chit chat they are training.
3. While fitness is surely an aspect, climbing isnt an endurance event, its a technical one.
3. While your buddies seem to be gracious they, nor anyone else, are obligated to be so. And the fact that they arent doesnt in itself make them a snob.
4. They have crashed before and dont want to again, your rock climbing guys only get one mistake, they just havent had it yet.
I'm sure the list could go on.
3. To me, the willingness to show others the ropes vs. never having time for newbies is pretty much the test of whether someone is a snob about their sport or not. I was trained by people experienced than I, and now I feel responsibility to pass those experiences on. There are climbers out there who are too good to climb with beginners- I call them snobs too. Fortunately, they are rare.
4. They've had accidents- fortunately the vast majority have been non-fatal. That doesn't stop them from occassionaly scaling back on their ambitions to have a good time with beginners.
08-10-05, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by RocketsRedglare
Thats BS.
I am involved in two sports that have an unfounded reputation of being snobby and elitist. I've won 3 national championships in my primary sport, and instead of being a jerk about it, I and many other former "elite-level" competitors (national champion, world champion and olympic medalists) mentor "noobs" and others regardless of social bracket or what kind of equipment they are using.
One of my friends won the first american medal for women in her sport, and although she still owns top line equipment, you will see her training with people in 30 year old beater-equipment.
And like your jackhole friends, we also spend gobs of time and money in our sport. Putting off careers, relationships, friends and family events so we could be the best that we could be. Only difference is that you will find very few jerks in that sport.
I am involved in two sports that have an unfounded reputation of being snobby and elitist. I've won 3 national championships in my primary sport, and instead of being a jerk about it, I and many other former "elite-level" competitors (national champion, world champion and olympic medalists) mentor "noobs" and others regardless of social bracket or what kind of equipment they are using.
One of my friends won the first american medal for women in her sport, and although she still owns top line equipment, you will see her training with people in 30 year old beater-equipment.
And like your jackhole friends, we also spend gobs of time and money in our sport. Putting off careers, relationships, friends and family events so we could be the best that we could be. Only difference is that you will find very few jerks in that sport.
Seriously...you should know there are snobs in every walk...cycling is no exception. I have known arrogant, golfers, tennis players...its a long list...a subphylum of every endeavor really...with an emphasis on sub. The vast majority that ride bikes do so on balloon tired cruisers and have great fun doing it...the very antithesis of a snob. When I fly by on my bike they probably think I am a cycling snob and couldn't be farther from the truth...I embrace all that enjoy the sport. Stereotypes are dangerous. This snob thing does portend to the whole poseur issue but best to not go there...lol.For you to call Galen's friends jackholes is worse than any snob reference. Keep in mind that half the people you meet that appear arrogant or snobby wear it as a badge of insecurity they have about themselves. Further...a perception of snobbery is an indictment of yourself...you don't feel you measure up. You want to show up a snob?...beat them at their own game...lol. One thing I do notice is a common theme on this message board in particular...someday we can explore the basis but a big part of it I believe is the competitive nature of cyclists...we like to test ourselves and others.
George
Last edited by biker7; 08-10-05 at 04:18 PM.
08-10-05, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by rosem
You want to talk about snobby riders, go to harbor springs, mi - I just stopped by their bike shop on the way down here, and it was snob town usa 
- the first time i experienced this was at the Federal Open Systems Expositions (FOSE) in Washington, DC when the NeXT folks set up a booth... all booth 'bimbos' [male and female] were dressed in black... they were so snobby that they talked with NO ONE! a real bust as booth experiences go... knowlegdable users will remember the NeXT as a monochrome, then color display Postscript UNIX box... and oh yes, Steve Jobs was the person at the helm at the time...
- worse yet is the LBS that seeks to **** the uninitiated and unknowledgeable to the maximum tune possible for simple items... for example, one DH at a LBS here tried to sell me a gel tape bar wrap for $29.95... (guess i won't be buying a bike from them anytime)...
- any business expressing disdain for customers, no matter at what level of experience, deserves to be shunned... screw the LBS that isn't friendly, helpful, or willing to share experience and knowledge...
- i vote with my $$$ (of which i have much, but alas, cannot use to ride any bike i wish)
08-10-05, 04:11 PM
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A snob is someone so busy showing off his bling that he doesn't notice me showing off my bling.
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08-10-05, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackberry
A snob is someone so busy showing off his bling that he doesn't notice me showing off my bling.
George
08-10-05, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by linux_author
- interesting consumer experience - walking into an emporium designed to cater to high-end consumers...
- the first time i experienced this was at the Federal Open Systems Expositions (FOSE) in Washington, DC when the NeXT folks set up a booth... all booth 'bimbos' [male and female] were dressed in black... they were so snobby that they talked with NO ONE! a real bust as booth experiences go... knowlegdable users will remember the NeXT as a monochrome, then color display Postscript UNIX box... and oh yes, Steve Jobs was the person at the helm at the time...
- worse yet is the LBS that seeks to **** the uninitiated and unknowledgeable to the maximum tune possible for simple items... for example, one DH at a LBS here tried to sell me a gel tape bar wrap for $29.95... (guess i won't be buying a bike from them anytime)...
- any business expressing disdain for customers, no matter at what level of experience, deserves to be shunned... screw the LBS that isn't friendly, helpful, or willing to share experience and knowledge...
- i vote with my $$$ (of which i have much, but alas, cannot use to ride any bike i wish)
- the first time i experienced this was at the Federal Open Systems Expositions (FOSE) in Washington, DC when the NeXT folks set up a booth... all booth 'bimbos' [male and female] were dressed in black... they were so snobby that they talked with NO ONE! a real bust as booth experiences go... knowlegdable users will remember the NeXT as a monochrome, then color display Postscript UNIX box... and oh yes, Steve Jobs was the person at the helm at the time...
- worse yet is the LBS that seeks to **** the uninitiated and unknowledgeable to the maximum tune possible for simple items... for example, one DH at a LBS here tried to sell me a gel tape bar wrap for $29.95... (guess i won't be buying a bike from them anytime)...
- any business expressing disdain for customers, no matter at what level of experience, deserves to be shunned... screw the LBS that isn't friendly, helpful, or willing to share experience and knowledge...
- i vote with my $$$ (of which i have much, but alas, cannot use to ride any bike i wish)
Worse snobs in the business world?
is it just me, or do Kinkos employees come across as snippy little snobs.
And sadly the people at apple stores used to be cool, but lately, at least at fashion Island and South Coast Plaza theve been hiring a lot of goth kids with pissy little attitudes.
08-10-05, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by RocketsRedglare
Only problem is that some of these guys are jerks even when they are sitting at the starbucks.
Keep up the excuses. Some of you guys have a well deserved reputation of being the BMW driver of the cycling world.
Keep up the excuses. Some of you guys have a well deserved reputation of being the BMW driver of the cycling world.
And some of us have reputations for giving to the sport, teaching all who want to learn and donating our time to our local cycling clubs.
Show me the contract/law/rulebook/guideline etc that says a Cat1 OWES someone a bike riding lesson...
Your entitlement mentality is far more devisive then some guy that wants to ride his bike by himself.
08-10-05, 04:38 PM
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Keep up the excuses. Some of you guys have a well deserved reputation of being the BMW drivers of the cycling world.
08-10-05, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by RocketsRedglare
Keep up the excuses. Some of you guys have a well deserved reputation of being the BMW drivers of the cycling world.
If only I could figure out how to carry my road bike on the thing...
08-10-05, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by CastIron
Well I do have a BMW motorcycle.
K1?
08-10-05, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by CastIron
Better still. The new 12.
Thanx.
Thanx.
Now I'm jealous.
08-10-05, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by womble
These guys still sound like complete snobs to me. I've got friends who would be similarly (if not more) skilled rockclimbers and mountaineers- two sports with far greater safety concerns. Yet they are invariably friendly and helpful with less skilled climbers and often happy to do a bit of teaching.
I've offered the odd tip to an unskilled rider before, but never when in a paceline. There are more appropriate moments for teaching.
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08-10-05, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by RocketsRedglare
Keep up the excuses. Some of you guys have a well deserved reputation of being the BMW drivers of the cycling world.
George
08-10-05, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by timwat
Much as I know it may not be profitable, I'll throw in my 0.000002.
EventServices (interesting handle) has a good, valid point. Basically, if the expectation of experience and sophistication of knowledge (in this case, riding knowledge) is necessary, and the lack thereof puts others at actual risk, yes, you need to exclude those without the necessary skills (think of a similar analogy in group skydiving).
But I think the larger issue, personally, is more about character than whatever a guy rides. If someone by nature is given playing to social caste structure, elitism, snobbiness, etc., it's going to be manifested EVERYWHERE...not just in cycling. He's going to despise those he perceives are "below" him, and suck up to those he perceives are "above" him.
We see it in cycling. We demonstrate it when we hide behind a forum handle to berate someone who doesn't "measure up" to our standard. And if someone is given to this with cyclists, imagine what his wife endures.
EventServices (interesting handle) has a good, valid point. Basically, if the expectation of experience and sophistication of knowledge (in this case, riding knowledge) is necessary, and the lack thereof puts others at actual risk, yes, you need to exclude those without the necessary skills (think of a similar analogy in group skydiving).
But I think the larger issue, personally, is more about character than whatever a guy rides. If someone by nature is given playing to social caste structure, elitism, snobbiness, etc., it's going to be manifested EVERYWHERE...not just in cycling. He's going to despise those he perceives are "below" him, and suck up to those he perceives are "above" him.
We see it in cycling. We demonstrate it when we hide behind a forum handle to berate someone who doesn't "measure up" to our standard. And if someone is given to this with cyclists, imagine what his wife endures.
Is that why the guys in the full kits turn up their noses at my Scattante?
08-10-05, 07:17 PM
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I've always ridden a bike becuz it was fun. After reading this thread I feel like I've wasted my life.
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08-10-05, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse
Are your rock climber friends likely to stop and do a bit of teaching to a stranger while they are in the middle of a difficult pitch? I doubt it. Nor would I expect those in a paceline to stop and give tips to a stranger who happened along.
I've offered the odd tip to an unskilled rider before, but never when in a paceline. There are more appropriate moments for teaching.
I've offered the odd tip to an unskilled rider before, but never when in a paceline. There are more appropriate moments for teaching.
I'm aware that there is a time an a place for instruction, but "never" and "nowhere" are not them.
08-10-05, 07:35 PM
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Snobs are everywhere - this is a fact of life. No matter where you go, what hobbies you have, people will find a way to set themselves apart so they can look better than the next guy. It's the: "My model rocket shoots lazers out of it's ass." mentality.
People like being envied, it makes them feel tingly and funny on the inside. This is possiably they only way they can get this feeling so they perpetuate it whenever they can. It would stand to reason that people with the same hobbies/intrests/passion would tend to get along, but this is rarely the case - especially when it's a tiered system i.e you can spend more money and get a better tape dispenser than your club members - you now feel as if your the best tape dispenser owner in your tri-state area - maybe even the world.
As a pilot I'm obviously surrounded by other pilots quite a bit; we all share stories and B.S eachother about when we can do. However, there is a distinct feeling that everyone tries to one-up the next guy. No matter what story of great daring and survival you have, the next guy has one better. Maybe you landed in a serve thunderstorm, but he landed in a thunderstorm upside down and passed out while talking on his cellphone. This is the nature of things - most of the time it's all in good fun, but for some people it's their purpose in life to be better than you.
Owe? No. Being such a knowlegabe and well trained rider takes determination and passion. A person with passion tends to want to share it with others. Now, in the middle of a traning ride is a different story, but other than that, there shouldn't be a reason to pass up the chance to talk about your favoriate subject and pass on what you know. If you feel no need to do as such, then passion might not be the word for it.
People like being envied, it makes them feel tingly and funny on the inside. This is possiably they only way they can get this feeling so they perpetuate it whenever they can. It would stand to reason that people with the same hobbies/intrests/passion would tend to get along, but this is rarely the case - especially when it's a tiered system i.e you can spend more money and get a better tape dispenser than your club members - you now feel as if your the best tape dispenser owner in your tri-state area - maybe even the world.
As a pilot I'm obviously surrounded by other pilots quite a bit; we all share stories and B.S eachother about when we can do. However, there is a distinct feeling that everyone tries to one-up the next guy. No matter what story of great daring and survival you have, the next guy has one better. Maybe you landed in a serve thunderstorm, but he landed in a thunderstorm upside down and passed out while talking on his cellphone. This is the nature of things - most of the time it's all in good fun, but for some people it's their purpose in life to be better than you.
Show me the contract/law/rulebook/guideline etc that says a Cat1 OWES someone a bike riding lesson...
08-10-05, 07:35 PM
#97
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Originally Posted by 'nother
Why not explain that this ride is perhaps more advanced than his (apparent) ability level
Also, the middle of a training ride probably isn't the best time to be giving someone a lecture on the intracacies of paceline riding
08-10-05, 08:22 PM
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There is always going to a pecking order of some sort, in anything, and the guys at the bottom will always complain about those on top.
Our town/ride scene is a little different than most, this being a small southern town, we don't have a lot of people dropping tons of $$$ on their bicycles. (We have one guy who has all the bling, but he's not very fast, so he only acts like a prick to the guys that are slower than him, and keeps his mouth shut around anyone who is faster)
Our pecking order is more performance based, and to me, it's not even really by results, its according to effort.
We get new people from time to time, either visiting, or just moved to the area, and regardless of what they are riding, if they are busting thier butt to hang on, or get better etc.. They will fit in just fine.
There are maybe 50 of us total in town, and I have never heard anyone talk down to or about someone becuase of their equipment, the only "negative" talk and I use that term loosely, becuase its mostly observation, with maybe a small dig, is in regards to guys that seem to puss out too early when the going gets rough.
We've got some kids who ride some pretty ratty bikes, and they ride them hard.
Our town/ride scene is a little different than most, this being a small southern town, we don't have a lot of people dropping tons of $$$ on their bicycles. (We have one guy who has all the bling, but he's not very fast, so he only acts like a prick to the guys that are slower than him, and keeps his mouth shut around anyone who is faster)
Our pecking order is more performance based, and to me, it's not even really by results, its according to effort.
We get new people from time to time, either visiting, or just moved to the area, and regardless of what they are riding, if they are busting thier butt to hang on, or get better etc.. They will fit in just fine.
There are maybe 50 of us total in town, and I have never heard anyone talk down to or about someone becuase of their equipment, the only "negative" talk and I use that term loosely, becuase its mostly observation, with maybe a small dig, is in regards to guys that seem to puss out too early when the going gets rough.
We've got some kids who ride some pretty ratty bikes, and they ride them hard.
08-10-05, 08:43 PM
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Ok just to mediate a bit...
There is definitely a time and place for instruction and there is the point of the person being instructed paying heed.. Eventservices did drop bakc with the guy and told him what to do and to observe and this dude didnt want to listen..
I agreee that nobody needs to educate newbs. Its all kinda fair to ask someone to pay their dues and work the... But what example are you setting? Do you want to embrace fellow cyclists or do you want to come off as a stiff elitist bunch, at least thats what the uninitated would think... Better yet do you think a newb should find out the hard way when he is doing something wrong and it will take you a second to correct him...
Personally I am all for a pecking order based on performance... not based on who had been around, whether you are a noob, bling factor, body fat etc etc...
In all fairness eventservices and his buddies did the right thing and the 'perp' was being a bit of an assclown.. hope this helps...
There is definitely a time and place for instruction and there is the point of the person being instructed paying heed.. Eventservices did drop bakc with the guy and told him what to do and to observe and this dude didnt want to listen..
I agreee that nobody needs to educate newbs. Its all kinda fair to ask someone to pay their dues and work the... But what example are you setting? Do you want to embrace fellow cyclists or do you want to come off as a stiff elitist bunch, at least thats what the uninitated would think... Better yet do you think a newb should find out the hard way when he is doing something wrong and it will take you a second to correct him...
Personally I am all for a pecking order based on performance... not based on who had been around, whether you are a noob, bling factor, body fat etc etc...
In all fairness eventservices and his buddies did the right thing and the 'perp' was being a bit of an assclown.. hope this helps...
08-10-05, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by sweetfracture3
Maybe you landed in a serve thunderstorm, but he landed in a thunderstorm upside down and passed out while talking on his cellphone.