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  1. #51
    DEADBEEF khuon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dog hair
    is it that they've done so much better or that they've always been willing to sell "whatever" to "whoever?" aegis' and kestrel's philosophies differ greatly from trek. if you look at what the different companies are about, it's safe to say that aegis and kestrel have done quite well.
    Well said. I have nothing against Trek but when I was shopping for a CF roadbike, I tested the Trek 5200 and found it lacking. To me, it exhibited all the stereotypes of a CF frame feel... dead and wooden. The ride quality of the Aegis Aro Svelte is quite the opposite of the 5200. It's lively. Aegis' philosophy is to create a bike that's robust, durable and exhibits a ride quality that's as good as steel or titanium combined with a high degree of responsiveness. As such, an Aegis frame won't win any points in the weight department. Mine weighs in close to 3lbs. and it's a 48cm frame. However, Aegis bikes are meant to dispell the belief that CF frames are disposable pieces of plastic.
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  2. #52
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    Beautiful bike! Great paint! Funny thing, I was just thinking that even if I buy a new frame, I'm going to dig out the old D/A crankset.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperZ
    ...

    Say didn't I read somewhere you are Building a Serrota Ti Legend?
    No, a Ti Concours. The Legend is triple-butted, the Concours is double-butted. For $1,000 more I didn't think the triple-butting was necessary for me--nor do I think I could even tell the difference, plus the Concours is a much better bike than I am a cyclist--a Legend would be overkill. I got it built with oversized tubing--so it should be sweet. Serotta has three Ti models, Concours is the mid-range one.

    I just learned from the shop that the frame is 'en route' from the factory. I'd really like to see it, but the shop is 3hrs (6hrs round trip) away--and I'll need to go back for the final fitting. I still might have it shipped home, so I can stare at it for a couple weeks while I order parts. There are two Serotta dealers in town (St. Louis) but this guy out of town is the best/most experienced.

    I'll put a couple pics in 'What road bike do you have' sticky thread when I get it. I think I need to go through a couple more pay cycles until I'll have all the components though.


    the frame/fork should look like this--except, no seat tube or chain stay decals, and a sloping top tube
    Last edited by Serpico; 09-04-05 at 02:15 AM.

  4. #54
    Baby it's cold outside... ViperZ's Avatar
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    Thanks guys

    Since the time I bought the Trek, Trek certainly has grown, relative to Kestrel and Aegis. I think this is good for Trek, bad for fans of small industry bikes, a difference in directions. However those companies directors may think otherwise 'How can we increase market share?' or 'We have all the market share we want'. With respect to a lot of hardcore bike enthusiast, I think the Big Corporate empire that has become Trek actually becomes a stumbling block to them. They seek out more smaller one off companies building bikes that seem less common.

    Even back in 89, I would have never thought I would buy a Trek, for they were becoming common then as well, and if I could make a confession, I have always seeked out smaller one off bikes too. I was looking to buy the Kestrel 4000, however it just happened my LBS said Trek had this 5000 that he could order and that he would gave it to me at cost, just so he could see it. Sounded good to me. At that price, I could ride a Trek We were pretty surprised to learn once the bike arrived that it was built by a 3rd party. Today I think that makes the bike pretty special to be a Trek, but not

    To this day I think Trek builds one of the best high end bikes around. Certainly the new Madone SL is an amazing frame and I would love to try one, if only there wasn't a bunch of other bike frames I would like to try first. However if my dealer was to extend the same type of offer as he did on the 5000, I would ride a Madone Maybe I need to talk to him about it


    Zig, that is going to be a nice bike, congrats. I'm with you. I would have the bike at home just to stare at too, even if it was just the frame. I'm the type of person that could not wait to get my paws on a new toy, even in a partial state

    I really want a Titanium bike as a next ride...

    Pudding Legs, I'm with you on the old DA crankset. I know the new DA is the stiffest thing around, but man it is a bit on the homely side. I have updated my deraileur from the 7402 to the 7800, and I have to say, looks and detail wise, the old 7402 really makes the new 7800 look cheap and soul-less
    Last edited by ViperZ; 09-04-05 at 08:11 AM.
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  5. #55
    Coastal NC oneradtec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dog hair
    is it that they've done so much better or that they've always been willing to sell "whatever" to "whoever?" aegis' and kestrel's philosophies differ greatly from trek. if you look at what the different companies are about, it's safe to say that aegis and kestrel have done quite well.
    Trek sells many many more bikes...in more countries.......and has far better distribution and a far better research and development program. Plus their bikes are every bit as good or better. Doesn't get much better than their carbon line of bikes which includes the Madone line up. 7 Tour de France wins...plus many other big wins all around the world.

  6. #56
    Baby it's cold outside... ViperZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneradtec
    Trek sells many many more bikes...in more countries.......and has far better distribution and a far better research and development program. Plus their bikes are every bit as good or better. Doesn't get much better than their carbon line of bikes which includes the Madone line up. 7 Tour de France wins...plus many other big wins all around the world.
    I agree, regardless of what a person may feel of Trek, you can bet the Madone has benifited from an extensive and top notch R&D program.
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  7. #57
    Whateverthehell Chucklehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneradtec
    Trek sells many many more bikes...in more countries.......and has far better distribution and a far better research and development program. Plus their bikes are every bit as good or better. Doesn't get much better than their carbon line of bikes which includes the Madone line up. 7 Tour de France wins...plus many other big wins all around the world.
    words simply fail.
    "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." - Leonardo daVinci

  8. #58
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    Just curious Viper, are you using the original BB with the crank? I don't know the model numbers, but the 7402 crank is stiffer (albeit heavier) than it's successor. Much truth about the 7402 8 speed stuff, even the first generation STI levers.

  9. #59
    Baby it's cold outside... ViperZ's Avatar
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    Yes, the BB is the original one, I have repacked it just once.

    The cups are stamped "7400"
    -Trek 5000* -Project Litespeed* -The Italian Job* -Rocky Wedge* -The Canadian Connection*

  10. #60
    Back in black cydewaze's Avatar
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    I had an old 8-sp DA crank on my mine (w/ sq taper BB) and the thing's a noodle. My 9-sp octalink DA stuff is much stiffer.

  11. #61
    Baby it's cold outside... ViperZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cydewaze
    I had an old 8-sp DA crank on my mine (w/ sq taper BB) and the thing's a noodle. My 9-sp octalink DA stuff is much stiffer.
    I have never felt my cranks flex, even to a point to be considered noodles, However I have never broken a frame either I'm a heavy guy at 205 lbs, with huge pipes

    Hammering up a hill, I don't get any chain-ring rub, and I don't feel as if I'm losing any power. If anything it seems the bike climbs superbly, surging ahead with each pedal stroke, flexyness in the frame or cranks isn't even a consideration. The inner chain ring has a very tight tolerance to the right chain stay(~2mm), so any flex would surely mark that stay area, however it is free of any flex/rub marks what so ever.


    Here is an interesting crank test At Bikesport.com


    Quote Originally Posted by bikesport
    After all the money we spent and time exerted I think this proves something we already knew: Components don't mean much.The differences between them are often so small they won't influence your performance. Having a stem 1 cm. too long, the wrong seat tube angle on your frame for your measurements or a saddle height off by 7mm would make a much more tangible difference in performance and comfort than the differences we discovered between any of these cranks.


    This only points to the shortsightedness of shopping for a bike by components. When it takes elaborate test apparatus and sensitive instruments to measure the minor differences between components not even a Tour de France professional or Ironman winner will notice perceivable changes. I simply got some FSA Carbon Pro Team cranks because they are the lightest in the test and plenty stiff enough for me. I also do happen to think they look cool and they are expensive so I'm hoping customers see mine, want some themselves and then I sell a few extra sets and make a few extra dollars. Bottom line, pretty simple.


    It all goes back to this: Buy your bike by fit. Buy your components by fit. Then you will get the best performance. But didn't we already know that?


    Apparently the measured flex differences between the cranks tested could not visually be seen.

    That's not to say my Cranks are not noodles, all things being relative, however, I don't think it really matters to me at this point, they certainly seem stiff enough for me

    I'll just keep Cydewaze away from it cause he'll snap the frame and the puney cracks like toothpicks
    Last edited by ViperZ; 09-04-05 at 01:30 PM.
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  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by cydewaze
    I had an old 8-sp DA crank on my mine (w/ sq taper BB) and the thing's a noodle. My 9-sp octalink DA stuff is much stiffer.
    I just remember Tony Rominger riding his old cranks because he thought the octolink wasn't as stiff. Personally, I can't tell the difference. My octolinks are 175's and 7400's 172.5's...that I can feel.


    Viper, the next upgrade is a fork. Of course you have to get it painted that beautiful candy apple red as well!

  13. #63
    DEADBEEF khuon's Avatar
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    I'm currently running FSA Carbon Pros with aluminum spiders unlike the Teams which have full carbon spiders along with a Dura-Ace OctaLink BB. I haven't noticed any flex but I do worry about the fragility of the Dura-Ace BB as I've read many accounts of them imploding around where my mileage is creeping towards. As my plans for my own rebuild finalise, I've been drooling for days since seeing those pictures of the Stronglight Pulsion with the integrated Ti BB.



    If you're not a big fan of carbon cranks however, I'm almost sure Stronglight will be offering their beautiful Z'Light in a similar format.



    The upcoming Time cranks look nice too.

    1999 K2 OzM 2001 Aegis Aro Svelte OCP Club Member
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  14. #64
    Baby it's cold outside... ViperZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puddin' legs
    Viper, the next upgrade is a fork. Of course you have to get it painted that beautiful candy apple red as well!
    Yes, the longer I think about it, the more I want to do it. Of course I agree the fork has to be painted to match. I have performed Photoshops of the bike with a black carbon fork and it does not look as nice.

    I'm sweet for the Reynolds forks like the Ouzo Pro Aero



    It has just the right amount of curve with nice fork blade width that may match the bike.

    Other Thoughts?



    Khuon, nice cranksets The Stronglight and Time look very nice
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  15. #65
    Back in black cydewaze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puddin' legs
    I just remember Tony Rominger riding his old cranks because he thought the octolink wasn't as stiff. Personally, I can't tell the difference. My octolinks are 175's and 7400's 172.5's...that I can feel.
    My opinion might be worthless because it's only based on one incident.

    When I built up my Scattante, I used my old 8-sp DA stuff. One thing I noticed was that while climbing out of the saddle in the big ring, the chain would move side-to-side and rub on the insides of the front der, both sides. At first I thought it was frame flex.

    When I sent my Trek in for warranty replacement (the first time), I moved my 9-sp DA crank and octalink BB to the Scattante. Noticably less chain rub under the same conditions, and in fact it almost didn't rub at all. That's when I decided it must be the crank/BB and not the frame. Not sure what else it could be since everything else is the same.

    But thinking back, when the 8-sp stuff was on the OCLV, I don't ever remember having the problem.

  16. #66
    Baby it's cold outside... ViperZ's Avatar
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    Any thoughts on the Fork?
    -Trek 5000* -Project Litespeed* -The Italian Job* -Rocky Wedge* -The Canadian Connection*

  17. #67
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    Order it! The fat pipes will look better with your frameset and probably be a better ride as well! Of course keep the old fork...in another 10-15, you'll want to make it all original again as a collector's item!

  18. #68
    Overacting because I can SpongeDad's Avatar
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    I really like the internal / hidden cables. Gives the whole thing an elegance that's hard to find.

    Does anyone make a decent bike with internal routing anymore (other than custom)?
    “Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm." (Churchill)

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  19. #69
    Whateverthehell Chucklehead's Avatar
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    "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." - Leonardo daVinci

  20. #70
    Baby it's cold outside... ViperZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puddin' legs
    Order it! The fat pipes will look better with your frameset and probably be a better ride as well! Of course keep the old fork...in another 10-15, you'll want to make it all original again as a collector's item!
    Thanks for the push You think the Aero is the way to go or should I try a slightly less wide fork such as the Ouzo Pro?

    I suppose it's too close to what I have already.....





    Quote Originally Posted by SpongeDad
    really like the internal / hidden cables. Gives the whole thing an elegance that's hard to find.

    Does anyone make a decent bike with internal routing anymore (other than custom)?
    Thanks Spongedad. I think there are few like Klein Q Pro, Cervelo Soloist that come to mind.

    I really wished I would have switched over to Campagnolo for the cleaner cable routing as well, it would have retained more "elegance" as you stated.
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  21. #71
    Baby it's cold outside... ViperZ's Avatar
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    And that Awesome Kestrel Dog Hair Posted Nice!
    -Trek 5000* -Project Litespeed* -The Italian Job* -Rocky Wedge* -The Canadian Connection*

  22. #72
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    I'll bet either will look quite a bit fatter especially after a paint job.

  23. #73
    Baby it's cold outside... ViperZ's Avatar
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    I think I'll have to plan for it during the down season (winter) I can then dissassemble the bike and take the forks in to be matched and painted.

    I will also have to get a new threadless headset, stem and 31.7 bars.


    I feel I should be obtaining these parts for my new bike
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  24. #74
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    Nah, this one is really sexy.

  25. #75
    Back in black cydewaze's Avatar
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    Here's one with some red already on it!


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