DnvrFox

The guy has a screw loose, really. He was not just yelling, he was obviously out of his mind. He is not a 150 pounder, more like a 225 pounder, short and heavy.

I see no sense in getting into an altercation with someone who is practically insane at the moment. In fact, I see no sense in getting in an altercation with anyone. No one wins except the police.

pcsanity1

I think the added danger comes when the riders are doing two things at the same time when they are new to club rides. 1) Learning to ride in the paceline including proper communication. and 2) Riding faster than their current capability. (Which is a good thing, as they are working on getting faster, but that being said it does lead to inattentiveness even in experienced paceline riders.)

That being said, the faster the pack, the less social it seems to be. Though I can generally keep up with the fastest pack for most of a typical ride, I find that they are not much fun to ride with. Therefore, I tend to ride with a smaller pack that rides a tad slower. The pack is a mix of several different speeds, and we just hang together and have a good time. (Generally ride 19-21mph running speeds....slower if someone is having an off day.) We generally welcome new people. I think that I also like it because the group is about half female.

TexasGuy

I sometimes think its just a matter of people not remembering where they are/or what their long term goals are. I am sure that in my case, where they called me by a name that I had never given them, and told me they were going right and then did a u-turn behind me, if the person who worked for the LBS that sponsored the ride would have known that exhibiting such childish behavior would most likely cause my next small purchases to be considered being bought at another store or online , and possible inclusion of a future upcoming bike purchase (probably 2+k) he may have thought twice about doing so.

People are people, and it is when people forget about their long term goals for a job or a club, that one gets a chance to see the people for who they really are.

Blackberry

Yes! I belonged to a very successful club in another state that had three levels of ride just about every weekend. When I suggested the idea of graded rides to a local club here in Virginia, I was told, "nobody would be interested." I took that to mean, "We aren't the list bit interested in attracting a broader membership."

They've been very successful in maintaining their club as very small elite group.

bernmart

I second just about everything DnvrFox has said about this matter (maybe 'cause we're of an age, and have long since turned inward for acceptance, rather than looking for it from insignificant others).

Yet I've lucked into a perfect club for someone like me, with a core group of older riders (some of whom are fast as hell, btw) who are welcoming and considerate of new members and new riders, and strike a nearly ideal balance between riding and socializing on some of their rides, while others are left to the hammerers. As it should be.

Still, I do most of my riding alone. I only wish my wife were able to ride, but her arthritis makes this impossible for her.

lee_eldridge

Races are filled with people *****ing about technicalities, throwing elbows, and always yelling at other riders to watch their brakes, and it's mainly the "Insert random bike shop sponsor team riders". Most of them are rich pricks who have a less-than-halfway decent cardiovascular ability and a $5k bike. Don't worry about them, just make sure you take a few good guys with you when you attack and let the peloton shed them off the back as they try to chase your group down. It all gets sorted out at the end.

The same people are the ones training in all the club rides. Go figure.

TexasGuy

huh? what does racing have to do with clubs?

FLBandit

I mostly ride by myself as well. When I do go on organized rides, I end up riding by myself also. Some of it has to do with cliques, but some of it has to do with me being somewhat anti-social too. No-ones ever treated me badly on a ride, but some aren't overly friendly either.

lee_eldridge

It has everything to do with it. Club 'racers' generally ride with the 'club' training rides, and those are generally the most unfriendly guys. Thats the root of the problem. The "I race therefore I am" attitude.

Keith99

My viewpoint may be a bit unique and I hope helpful. I rode with the SFVBC for years and then was off the bike for about 5 years. Now I'm back. Life is still busy and I usually make it to the starts barely in time (OK honestly almost half the time barely in time to chase like hell from the start). I have 2 club jerseys, actually I'm one of the very few who has the previous version of the club jersey. I'm both linked into the club and not. I know the ride co-ordinator and his wife. I know more people 'at the top' than most, but fewer people overall than someone who has been there for 6 months or so.

SFVBC is a social club, e.g. not racing at all. Generally people are friendly, but like any other group they are individuals. Some are fine as riders, but people I stay away from when it comes to politics at all costs. I have had no trouble meeting people, but I am now riding the shorter rides and have confidence and can pull pretty hard on the flats. I often do not push to make the light when I know there are others 50 feet back who will miss it for sure. End result when there are one or two behing is I get to know a couple of people (or get to know someone better). If they simply are too slow for me I'll try to catch those ahead after a couple of miles.

Oh one other thing I've noticed. The very slowest group of about a half dozen people is pretty much the same people that it was when I dropped out. They are NOT at all unfriendly, but such settled groups are the hardest to break into (Actually thinking about it they are amazingly friendly for such a settled group). A new rider would be better served trying to stay with a group ahead of them. Join that group would slow both your progress as a cyclist and your getting to know more than 6 people.

General advice:

Get to the start early. This is your chance to meet people and find things out. SFVBC simply puts out route slips and makes a few anouncements, then people take off and groups form ad hoc. BUT the first saturday there is a into ride, simply the short ride, but with a leader/teacher for new riders that want to get started that way. Get there early and you could ask the guy who puts out the route slips that day. (For that matter it is useful to glance over a route slip before starting.

Start riding not late. No need to be the first one out of the lot, but don't be the last either. If you are ahead of the group yuo 'should' be in speedwise it is a self correcting problem. If you are behind them you may just keep gettin gfarteer behind.

Remember YOU are the new guy. Few of the other people there are leaders of the group. They may have started just a week before you did and feel just as lost in the group. Just like any other group the people who introduce themselfs are the ones who meet more people and unless they are jerks make more friends.

puddin' legs

Different areas of the country definately have different bike cultures, even within a state. Too bad that so many have had a bad experience. Sure, there are clubs that are bad, but many many more that are good. Find another one and try again. IMH experience, I've never encountered a club that wouldn't teach a beginner how to ride in a paceline, etc...unless they happened to show up at the once a week hammerfest which isn't the best time or place to learn. Interestingly, even many experienced riders are pretty terrible at teaching someone how to do what they can do without a thought or bat of the eye. Best to ask if they have rides and people compatible with your goals.

squeegy200

When I first started riding, I looked for anyone publishing group rides and tagged along. Some of them were friendly, others were bad experiences. My motivation was to find others who rode in my class. I was also interested in finding new routes.

One of my more unpleasant experiences was with a club where I followed them thru a coastal route along busy streets only to be dropped without any clue where to go and miles from nowhere. I had to find my own way back to my car.

Despite the bad experiences, Now 12 years later, I have a circle of friends that I can call to ride anywhere.

kip2714

That was my experience with our club. After joining the club for a few rides, the walls came down a bit and the other riders knew I was after the same experience they had come to enjoy. I made the effort to talk to a few people and the next thing you know, I was one of the guys. There are some that are still a bit clique-ish, but I always try say hi to them even if I get little back. That's there problem, not mine.

Just don't be intimidated by anyone. We are all out chasing the same ghost and we all had to start somewhere.

RiPHRaPH

when people are faced with safety concerns they act in irrational ways sometimes.
I am pretty mild mannered, and was on an airplane, and someone decided to fire up their cell phone and make a call as we were landing. they were blabbing away, and with people rolling their eyes, I ripped into her saying that my family didn't care to have our safety compromised because of her self importance. I was greeted with claps and cheers after my heated speech. Do you think the effect would have been the same if i had asked politely after the flight as we were disembarking?

People confront in this manner to modify behavior for next time.

In a paceline, if there is an inexperienced person not pulling through completely, or cutting off the person in back as they move over to the front CONTINUOUSLY then there is reason to yell. Are you going to not say something only to have someone or several people bite it @ 22mph+? YELLING to the front from a dozen riders back conveys the thought WITHOUT calling out one guy per se. It isn't a one - on -one confrontation. It is a general admonishment that should work well.
People have to assume responsibility for their actions. Saying, 'well i didn't know' is thinly veiled when safety is on the line.
Their are B rides i had to excuse myself from due to the safety concerns of the group.

That being said, it is hard to have a calm, low voice 'um, you might want to try and ...etc.... when anaerobic.

I've seen people drop water bottles in the group, causing massive disruption.

These experiences were from a racing team. perhaps this is not appropriate in a social club setting. **all club rides should be about the group, and not the individual however.

again, i am lucky to have several rides and clubs to choose from as my talents dictate.

puddin' legs

I have to disaggree. There's rarely if ever a reason to yell at someone on a training ride regardless of the pace. Races of course are different, but even then yelling does little to correct a bad decision...stink eye is more effective. The only exception I can think of is if someone at the front doesn't call the intersection clear, blasts through, and leaves 3/4 of the group slamming on their brakes trying not to get hit by a car.

If people are yelling at a beginner in a paceline, then it tells us that no one in the group has been at it long enough to know how or what to say to teach the person who's having difficulty and/or there is no designated ride leader to help deal with this kind of problem. IMH experience, riders have always responded to thoughful critique and help. Civility works contrary to what we see on TV.

UmneyDurak

Well I lucked out I guess. Right now I'm riding and was racing in spring with a one of the Collegian teams. The rides are awsome. No one really minds waiting for a slow person at the top of the hill. There are no yelling at a new person. The general attitude is "Help a new person". I'm graduatting this semester, so I'm really not sure what I'm going to do when it comes to cycling. With posts like this, I don't really feel like trying to join any other club.

SteveE

Maybe "yell" wasn't the right word. There are definitely times when a group of riders goes off the front that I have to raise my voice to high volume and ask them to slow down the pace. Sure beats the heck out of racing up to them and quietly requesting they drop it down a notch.

PinkFloyd

I started riding with our local club spring 2005. I showed up for the Saturday Breakfast Ride (one of their many regular weekly rides) with my trusty Giant hybrid. Of course, everyone else was on a roadie, some of them very nice. Plus, even though I'd put over 1000 miles on the hybrid by then, I came with zero experience riding with a group of any size. I wasn't sure what to expect.

A few of the other riders acted as if I didn't exist, a couple of them smirked just a little, but nobody said anything negative as we got ready to leave. It didn't take long for the group to leave me behind, but one guy (who I later learned is the club president) stuck back there with me the whole way and gave encouragement. After we caught up with the others that stopped for breakfast (the real serious riders keep on going), I found that they were a pretty nice bunch of folks, most of whom were happy to help a new guy along. It was a chore to keep up with them for the rest of the ride, but I managed to hang with the slower group.

That initial exposure to the club and the good experience I enjoyed with them motivated me to:

1) come back again and make some new friends
2) move ahead with my plans to get a road bike ASAP
3) join the club

Doing regular club rides has really helped me increase my endurance and overall speed and has made cycling much more enjoyable. Without the club rides, there's no way at all that I would've been able to even consider doing Hotter 'n Hell 100 last month. I'll never get up to the level of the more serious riders and, at my age, I really just want to enjoy it and stay in good shape.

If you haven't checked out your local club, I'd encourage you to do so. At worst, you'll decide that they're a bunch that you don't want to be around and you won't go back. You may, however, find a good new group of riding buddies.

lisitsa

I agree, but unfortunately, for someone who's 17 years old, up to like 22, theres not that many social clubs, most are full of racers and hardcores who all wear lycra, just to conform. Not offending anyone at the forum, but this is the case with most youths who ride roadies.
As for the questions, in a group as mentioned above, here's what you'll expect:

2. Groups will make you go very hard, and be arrogant or just drop you if you can't keep up
3. if you're willing to conform
5. I personally hate drafting, whats the point of risking crashing for a wind advantage.
6. Their won't be a cheer or friendly smile, while they fix your bike, it'll almost seem like it would be better if you were alone, trying to fix your bike yourself, with no roadies badmouthing you about why their ride had to get delayed.

Of course, I've only every ridden groups in australia, so I'm not gonna jump to any conclusions in any other countries. I know UK and New York has tons of fixie riders, and if you can ride through new york with no brakes, then you MUST have an relaxed attitude.

cyclezealot

That means to me. It's time to move on..The club I frequented was successful too. Each level had a large following..If one was interested,they would train and later join the next fastest group.. Exclusivity..Would not want to encourage the riff raff.

DannoXYZ 

There are definitely some barriers to new riders getting into clubs. The experience of the OP is definitely not out of the ordinary. It really does vary from club to club and I have no idea what percentages of clubs out there are like this. Definitely a lot of the race-oriented clubs are like this. It definitely turns off new riders, as mentioned ad nauseum in the "women racers" thread.

However, there ARE nice and friendy clubs out there that provide useful training and information to new riders. Just seek those out and ignore the hardcore small-penis groups. I know with our collegiate UCSB team, we actually had quite a few riders from the community who didn't enjoy the "only-the-toughest-survive" mentality of the other local clubs. Being young and in school, we also saw bike-racing as a social activity. I really did the road-trips to all the other schools to party and pick up on their chics. Who cares about winning every single race you enter, geesh relax! One thing we had that no one else did was a new-rider info packet. A small pamphlet that had basic info about the club, the officers' contact info, what collegiate-racing was like, what events we hold, and some into on how to behave on training ride. Basic stuff really that only takes 5-15 minutes for noobies to learn, like pacelining, changing tubes & tyres, even where to go for the good eats afterwards.

puddin' legs

Yeah, not the case in my experience either. Racers ride hard, but are usually pretty friendly if you can hang on. I'd say trouble happens when you have guys who think they're racing in touring groups or more casual rides...there's always 2 or 3. Identify and ignore them.

Blackberry

[QUOTE=Ben Cousins]That's really not the case in my experience of UK clubs. Here, the weekly 'club runs' are a social event for attracting new members and for people who want to do long steady miles. You might push it on the hills but you don't ride at training pace.
QUOTE]

I've ridden in the UK a number of times, and I'm always impressed with the great cycling traditions, whether touring, racing or club riding, that are woven into your culture.

Keith99

I take it you are 17 or so. You might want to give riding with older riders a try. Where I am if you were 30 and wanted to do social rides with groups that were mainly that age or younger you would have a hard time of it. Many of the problems you describe are very much tied to younger testosterone laden riders.

2. A informal group I rode with had a great over 50 rider. He could easily have dropped us all, and even working perfectly as a group we would not have caught him if he didn't want us to. Riding with him I learned to ride faster. But he had none of the attitude that some have. Somehow he was always encouraging. I've dealt with those who encourage and those who berate in many sports. By and large those who encourage are more mature (But some blokes mature very early, some never).

5. Drafting does not have to be inches. A full bike length back it is still very significant. (Look at the rules for the TDF in time trials when overtaking, you can not be directly behind for a long distance because there still is some advantage way back). It also makes a difference who you draft. That 50 plus rider again. He was very smooth. Getting even right on his wheel was easy, there were no speed changes no surprises. I've been behind others where a full bike length seems like way to little.

As to how people feel about helping you with fixing your bike a lot comes down to why they are on that ride and how the person with the breakdown acts. The folks I ride with are not riding to race. There is no problem with helping someone. BUT by and large it is helping, not doing for. And usually part of the help is teaching so if needed you can do it yourself next time. It is also common in this social setting for someone to have a minor mechanical and need no help (actually have something where more hands just get in the way). Still often people stop just so a rider will not be alone.

Oh and the safety in numbers can be important. 10 bikes is much more visible than a car, 1 bike under the wrong conditions can honestly remain unseen by a driver.

cyclezealot

It really is pretty simple.. 'birds of a feather flock together.'
The groupings are..Touring/recreational/Racing/off road..
Expect to seek out your own like minded riders and save yourself the grief...