sjjone

So I'm supposed to do a sprint workout every week, starting with 3 200m sprints and working up eventually. I do not feel that I have the hang of it yet though.

What sort of speed should I be going as I begin to sprint, how many gears should I go through, should I start in the big ring? When I try sprints, I usually start at about 14-15 mph, and after 200 flat meters am around 24-25 mph. I can go faster, just not in 200m. Is that the point?

I plan on employing any advice I get tomorrow morning...

hmai18

I don't shift while I'm sprinting; I usually just start in 53-14 or 53-13 and just wind it up from there.

climbo

supposed to do one every week? why?

a sprint workout can be in many shapes and forms, as long as you feel like puking at the end it's probably having some benefit

brinstar

Is that the typical sprint distance? 200m goes by really fast

thewalrus

Assuming a flat straight road, I'd start in a gear like 52-14 at about 33-34kph, grab the drops, get out of the saddle and work up to 44-45kph or so (shifting down to 52-12 in the process). Maintain that for about 300m if possible, rest, repeat.

climbo

no sprint is ever the same but 200m at MAXIMAL effort is a LONG way. It really depends on where the sprint is, conditions, turns, hills, teammates, build up speed, your sprinting style/top speed etc. etc.

brinstar

Is this typical technique to grab the drops? I find that being on top gives me the necessary stabilityl during these violent times.

DannoXYZ 

I find there's no hard & fast rule for sprinting, it depends upon the conditions and I'll pick the fastest strategy. The key is to be observant of such things as terrain, grade of the road, surface-grippiness, wind-direction and the others I'm sprinting against. It's like a chess game, there's numerous moves available at your fingertips, just put together the best combination for the moment.

"supposed to do one every week? why?"

The goal of sprints is to work out muscles almost isometrically to build up strength. This higher strength allows the muscles to work at a lower-percentage of their max during all other rides. Hillclimbs at previous speeds will occur at a lower percentage of your muscle's max-effort than before. This makes them work more aerobically because they're not as close to their LT as before. Muscles working at a lower effort is more efficient and generates more power with lower oxygen consumption. Increased max-strength also helps for endurance rides as well where you'll notice less cramping and soreness along with faster recovery the next day; again due to exerting your muscles at a lower percentage of their maximum strength.

In addition to physical training, sprint-workouts help develop sprinting-technique to obtain maximum-acceleration and maximum top-speed at the end of the sprint; both very handy performances for racing. I race motorcycles and cars too, 1/4-mile drags as well as road-courses like Laguna Seca, Sears Point, Willow Springs, etc. There's some similarities that come into play as far as how to get maximum performance from your equipment and win races.

Given limited resources of energy-supply and muscle-strength, one must develop the most optimum shifting pattern and pedaling-speed to get maximum-acceleration and top-speed. You have to SHIFT when you sprint! You cannot start in the finishing gear, you'll waste way, way too much time getting up to speed and will be completely spent within 35-45 seconds without gaining as much speed as a lower gear.

Think about drag-racing your car in the 1/4-mile. I'll typically hit 115-120mph with low-12s and shift up into 4th gear for a second or two by the end of the 1/4-mile. Imagine if I started this drag-race in 4th-gear from a standstill. What do you think my times would be and speed at the end?

You have a limited reserve of phospho and ATP power under 100% effort; about 35-45 seconds before your muscles shut down and cramp up from lactic acid. The longer you take to accelerate, the slower you'll be when that 35-45 seconds runs out. So, the fastest way to accelerate and cover any stretch of road is to use the lowest gears possible (more torque at the rear-wheel on the ground).

So being observant and responsive to the conditions means you pick a gear that gives you the best starting acceleration and shift up along the way. So here's the gears I use based upon the starting speed to begin the sprint around 85-90rpm:

20mph: 52x19t
25mph: 52x16t
30mph: 52x13t

The idea is you want to get maximum-acceleration out of the 35-45 seconds that your muscles will last. This is where datalogging speed, gearing and RPMs comes in handy; feedback is key to improving performance. You'll find that accelerating from 20-30mph in a really high gear at low-RPMs wastes all your phospho and cramps up the muscles quickly and gets you only up to 32mph by the end of 35seconds. However, if you use a lower gear you can go from 20-30mph in just 20 seconds, then shift up and use the remaining 15seconds to go from 30 to 35mph.

So the sequence may look like the following for various starting speeds in sprints:

20mph start: 52x19t@90rpm -> stand out of the saddle and crank as hard as you can
--> spin up to 100rpm, sit down and spin up to 110rpms @ 25mph
--> shift up to 52x16t @85rpm,
--> out of the saddle and push to 105rpm@ 28mph
--> sit and spin up to 120rpm @ 32mph

25mph start: 52x16t@90rpm -> stand out of the saddle and crank as hard as you can
--> spin up to 100rpm, sit down and spin up to 110rpms @ 30mph
--> shift up to 52x14t@105rpm, stay in saddle and spin up to 115rpm @ 35mph

30mph start: 52x13t@90rpm -> stand out of the saddle and crank as hard as you can
--> spin up to 100rpm, sit down and spin up to 115rpms @ 38mph

Having datalogging of speed vs. time will give you some feedback. The faster accelerations occur in the lower-gears and shifting up and staying in the saddle to limit aerodynamic drag at the higher speeds give you better top-speed.

"Is that the typical sprint distance? 200m goes by really fast"

The course I use has 1200m flat straight. Actual sprint distance is about 100-150m by myself up to 38-40mph and 150-250m with lead-outs to 41-42mph.

"Is this typical technique to grab the drops? I find that being on top gives me the necessary stabilityl during these violent times."

Pedaling form is key and once you're at 100% muscle-exertion, you can't push any harder. However, pushing evenly around a larger percentage of the pedal-circle will let you lay down more power. This requires smooth pedaling form and spinning (best practiced at lower effort levels on the flats). I use a steel track-bar for forearm and knee clearance and will go up to 105-110rpms out of the saddle and get up to 130rpms after that. About 40mph@130rpms in 52x14t. If I use taller gear like 52x13t, the slower acceleration and lower gearing-leverage only allows me to get up to 38mph@ 115rpms by the time my legs give out (both starting from 52x16t @30mph).

Safe and fast sprinting wastes minimal energy with rocking your bike back & forth. Practice this at 90% effort to remain smooth all the way up to max-RPMs. Then gradually work up to 95% effort while maintaining smothness. Then 98% effort, then 99% and eventually, you'll be able to do 100% effort sprints smoothly. The key is to remain in control at all times, if you're not able to maintain control of the bars, or your pedal clips out or the rear wheels skips on the road, back off the effort and work on being smooth. Then gradually increase the effort on the next sprint. Then practice bumping and pushing people in sprints.

nbf

Great post dannoxyz, i have had a lot of problems getting up to speed i high gears, was just curious can you atain those high speeds solo with a sloght headwind, cause under those conditions i usually peak at something like 28-30 mph in 52-15

DannoXYZ 

The key I find is to start at a speed slightly higher than your LT. This is to have as high of an initial speed as possible. This wastes as little energy as possible in acceleration. Obviously, if you only have 35-45 seconds of acceleration, if you start out at 25mph, you'll end up at a higher top-speed than starting at 20mph.

Then picking the optimum gears to give maximum acceleration reduces the amount of time wasted at any given speed. So to go from 25-30mph, if you use a 52x13t from 77rpm to 91rpm, you'll have spent a good 30seconds doing that with very little left over. Using a lower 52x15t from 88rpm to 105rpm will only take 20sec and you'll have 15 more seconds to drive the 52x14t from 95 to 110rpm to reach 34mph. If you datalog the two sequences, you'll see something like this for the same 35-second effort:

technique-1: 25mph 52x13t -> 30mph 30sec -> 31mph 5sec = 35sec total

technique-2: 25mph 52x15t -> 30mph 20sec -> 52x14t -> 34mph 15sec = 35sec total

The other key factor I find that gives higher top-speed in a sprint is a ramp-up rate; you don't go all out 100% at the start. Instead you start out a 90-95% for the first half of the sprint at the lower speeds, to save up energy for the 2nd half of the sprint to give 100% at the higher-speeds. So starting from 25mph, I may do the following:

25mph: 52x16t @ 95% effort to 30mph @ 98% effort, 15-seconds, upshift
30mph: 52x15t @ 98% effort to 35mph @ 100% effort, 20-seconds, upshift
35mph: 52x14t @ 100% effort to 38mph 10-seconds

There's an ramp-up rate that works best for different starting-speeds and conditions. The idea is to accelerate as quickly as possible using as little energy as possible and cranking it as much as possible in the last 15-seconds or so. It's similar to a lead-out, where you sit behind someone for the 1st half and exert yourself only 90%, then use that last 100% push at the end to start the sprint at a higher initial speed. This then gives you a higher top-speed at the end. Experiment with various starting-gears to find the fastest acceleration and optimum ramp-up rates to give you the fastest top-speeds.

Practicing max-RPM spinning really helps the sprinting. Because you're able to use lower-gears to give quicker acceleration to pull away from the other guys, and with the same maximum pedal-force, higher-RPMs gives more power output, as long as you can spin smoothly. So if you're able to reach 200rpm smoothly on downhills, spinning 130rpms in a 52x16t will generate more power at the rear wheels than a 52x14t @ 100rpms at the same pedal-force @ maximum-exertion.

"was just curious can you atain those high speeds solo with a sloght headwind, cause under those conditions i usually peak at something like 28-30 mph in 52-15"

Nah, headwinds will slow me down by almost the speed of the wind, so a 5mph headwind will limit me to 33-35mph. That's where lead-outs and tactics come into play. Always be aware of the wind-direction and sprint up the down-wind side of the pack to stay sheltered from the wind.

If you're not breaking 30mph in a sprint, use a lower gear. So start at 25mph in a 52x17 and do the following:

start @ 25mph in 52x17: gradually get up to 25mph by spinning above 90rpm and around 85% effort
--> get out saddle, keep nose close to stem, and crank up to 28mph/110rpm at 95% effort
--> sit down and spin up to 120rpms @ 30mph 100% effort
--> shift up to 52x16t, stay seated and low, spin up to 120rpms @ 32mph and 100% effort

Riding track really helps my sprinting speed as it teaches and practices smooth pedaling form; all of my effort is going into spinning the pedals faster rather than rocking the bike or yanking on the bars to compensate for inefficient pedal-stroke (I use 48x13t on track bike).

On my road-bike, I practice spinning @ 200rpms on downhills and on exercise-bikes in gym (actually those only go up to 199rpms). A lot of times, I'll start sprinting in the saddle by downshifting into a lower-gear to get my cadence up into the 105-115rpm range. Then I'll crank it up and pull away and no one even notices I've opened up a 5m gap. Then they have to accelerate faster than me and reach a faster top-speed just to get even with me... good luck suckerszzz... heh, heh...

nbf

Thanks again, it´s nice when advice is well thoughtout. You are much on pair with an interview with Robbie McEwen i read in Cycling weekly. He practiced going to 30 mph in 39 x 17 (really high revs) to get speed in the legs, the message was something like pedal fatser not harder! Another interesting thing was that he practiced his sprints on a very slight downhill to practice coming out of a group at high speeds. i think i have to work on my revs. cause I usually end up in a comfortable 90 rpm and then crank up to the high gears, don´t know if higher revs i harder for taller riders (192 cm´s).

DannoXYZ 

"He practiced going to 30 mph in 39 x 17 (really high revs) to get speed in the legs, the message was something like pedal fatser not harder!"

Heh, heh... That's 160rpms and I assure you, he's pushing it as HARD as he can! The goal with sprint-training is to develop pedaling-form so that you can push at 100% effort for as fast as possible. You're not trading pushing-hard for pushing-faster, you're still cranking the pedals at 100% effort, just practicing the form and control to do it in lower-gears. It just goes back to basic physics:

power = (force * distance) / time

So let's say you've got two guys pushing on their pedals with exactly the same amount of maximum-force... say 80kg. You can then cancel out the force:

power = distance / time

The only way to increase power-output is to push your feet through a longer distance (longer cranks or lower-gears) or to push that distance in less time (lower-gears & higher RPMs).

So if you're going up against McEwen in a sprint and you're just as strong as him and you're both pushing on the pedals with 80kg, but you're spinning 100rpm and he's spinning 160rpm, he's going to generate 60% more power!

Here's a simple test anyone can do to verify the effects of gearing & RPMs on sprinting. Set up a 100m stretch of road with markers at 0m and 100m. Start at 20mph in both tests when you cross the start marker:

test#1: use 52x13t and push as hard as you can from 0m to 100m mark
test#2: use 52x17t and push as hard as you can from 0m to 100m mark

Measure time to cover that distance and ending speed for those two tests and you'll have some interesting data.


BTW, with my 72cm inseam, I use a 165mm crank on the track-bike (mainly for pedal-clearance on the banking) and 172.5mm crank on the road bike.

gmason

Gee, imagine the response if this had been asked in the Road Bike Racing Forum.

Dudette

Hi Danno? What is the best way to improve on standing rpm. My comfortable seated rpm is btwn 100-110 but can't get above 85 if I stand.

biker7

Good stuff and many good points Danno. Addressing your comments about sprinting out of the saddle...would like to ask yourself and other RF members:

Do you do all your sprinting out of the saddle with hands on the hoods versus drops? Seems like pro riders sprint out to the saddle in the drops. I have worked on both techniques and they are different.
Pitch of the bicycle against pedaling forces maybe easier to control when on the hoods out of the saddle due to distance from the hoods to the pitch axis or tire contact patch with the ground...but believe ultimate leverage for sprinting is with hands down low pulling up when out of the saddle to counteract pedaling forces. May not be the most steady position in the drops when out of the saddle but believe it is the strongest.
George

jazzy_cyclist

Great posts, Danno! Thanks!

hi565

\


Too...Many....Tooo...LONG!

sjjone

Thanks Danno! I was psyched to go out and try it, but my computer went completely nuts a mile from home, I was losing light so I just tried to go by gear/cadence estimate. I'll get my computer working and try again later this week.

One thing I have trouble with, and I think it's an issue of not being a good spinner yet, is that if I'm turning 90rpm in 52x19 I'm going a faster than 20-more like 23-24. I can't seem to get over 85 rpm in 52x16 (unless I'm going downhill) without a LONG wind-up. Am I not ready cadence wise to do sprint workouts? I've never spun over 130, and that's with the help of a hill.

nbf

Now i´m getting somewhere, yesterday on the way home from work - on a flat, almost no wind - got it cranked up to 32 mph in 53x15.

actually a car with four dudes pulled up and followed me for 50 meters on the side - I thought oh no! - then they rolled down the window and said "hey cool man your going 35" (guess their speedometer is a bit off).

DannoXYZ 

Hey, good job!

"Gee, imagine the response if this had been asked in the Road Bike Racing Forum."

Heh, heh... I had a similar post there...

"What is the best way to improve on standing rpm. My comfortable seated rpm is btwn 100-110 but can't get above 85 if I stand."

"One thing I have trouble with, and I think it's an issue of not being a good spinner yet, is that if I'm turning 90rpm in 52x19 I'm going a faster than 20-more like 23-24. I can't seem to get over 85 rpm in 52x16 (unless I'm going downhill) without a LONG wind-up. Am I not ready cadence wise to do sprint workouts? I've never spun over 130, and that's with the help of a hill."

Riding rollers really help develop a smooth pedaling form. This allows you to apply force more evenly through all 360-degrees of the pedal-stroke and lets you spin higher-RPMs to generate more power. The downhill spins in low-gears are good also. Remember that force and power are not the same, if you can apply the same force faster (more RPMs) over a greater distance (pedal-travel/lower gears) you generate more power. Don't make such a big jump on the upshift, start out in 52x19t, get it revved up, and shift up to a 52x17t and spin that up as high as you can in the saddle.


"Do you do all your sprinting out of the saddle with hands on the hoods versus drops? Seems like pro riders sprint out to the saddle in the drops. I have worked on both techniques and they are different.
Pitch of the bicycle against pedaling forces maybe easier to control when on the hoods out of the saddle due to distance from the hoods to the pitch axis or tire contact patch with the ground...but believe ultimate leverage for sprinting is with hands down low pulling up when out of the saddle to counteract pedaling forces. May not be the most steady position in the drops when out of the saddle but believe it is the strongest."

Yup, you're correct. This goes back to pedaling-form again and pulling on the bars is to generate a downward force on your upper-body that is then transmitted through the back to the hips. The downward force at the hips counter-act the rising motion of pushing down on the pedals. The harder you push down on the pedals, the more upward force you generate on the body and the harder you have to pull up on the bars. So yes, grabbing the drops with your entire hand will give you a better grip and allow you to pull harder than just gripping with your fingertips around the hoods. Of course, pulling on the bars hard will tend to cause steering motions, so you have to balance the pull on the bars with your left and right arms in addition to counter-act the upward-force from one leg, then switch the pull to balance the other leg. That's why in the other sprinting thread, I recommended starting with only 95% effort in sprints to maintain control and develop the coordination. Then go up to 98%, then 100%. However.. there's a better solution...

That's because pulling up on the bars isn't the most efficient way to drive the pedals and the back muscles really get worked. The other way of counteracting the upward motion of the body from pushing on the pedals is to pull it down on the other side with the other leg! So rather than having the fulcrum of opposing forces be at the back with the upper-body pulling down and the leg pushing up, change this pivot point to the hips; pull up with one leg while pushing down with the other.

The motion I imagine is to try and force your knee up through your handlebars with the leg on the upstroke. It's like kneeing someone in the gut, an upward jerk. If you yank up with the knee on one side just as hard as you push down on the other, there's net a force of zero on the torso and you have no bounce to counter-act with the arms. That's how I'm able to spin up to 110rpms out of the saddle. I can do it with the hands on top of the hoods, but it's not as aero as being in the drops. And it's not perfect, the downstroke is still stronger than the upstroke pull, but that's easily balanced by the arms.

Another way to imagine this simultaneous up & down motion on both legs is to imagine those army-drills with running through the tyres. You know that drill where you run through two staggered row of tyres? This requires picking up one leg high as you push the other one down into a tyre. Sprint runners do a warm-up that's similar with a stationary running motion lifting their knees high. Or imagine doing the Stairmasters machine at high-speed. Same ideas, you want to balance the downward motion of one leg with an equal motion upwards on the other. The best way I imagine it is to yank one knee through the handlebars on the upstroke. Then when I sit down at 110rpm and spin up to 130, it's the usual round circular motion.

BTW - I recommend salsa, tango and merengue dancing to get coordinated feet and legs.. really helps out the sprints.

telenick

Great info Danno. I can especially relate to getting in a controlled environment:

improving form on a spin bike, trainer, rollers and track bike are great ways to develop sprinting skills.

gcasillo

Beat me to it. I started working on my sprints in May by putting the foot down on the accelerator from 200m out. That didn't last long. At full throttle, my vision's caving in anywhere from 100-150m. When you've got another 50-75m left to the line, that's a really ****ty feeling.

Cadd

Awesome posts DannoXYZ! Thanks

Off topic: Btw, you have a freaking fast car! Your 1/4 mile time is close to those of sports bikes!

DocRay

I too enjoy it on top, but sometimes for variety going under is fun.

DocRay

I still laugh at people who think cycling only requires good leg muscles. Sprinting builds the upper back and arms. The real trick is to do it with a signature crazy-ass look on your face.