dragonflybikes

I am looking for ideas of what to do with my old Bianchi frame. It is an all steel frame and steel fork that is around 12 - 15 years old. It is a Campione D'Italia. The problem with the frame is that there is a crack on the bottom bracket lug going around the seat tube. I have since replaced the bike with a new Orbea Onix and really don't have any need for it nor do I have space for it. I am not looking for suggestions of fixing it and making it a beater bike or a single speed. What I am looking for is suggestions on what I can do with it other than throwing it away? Should I call some small custome bike builders to see if they want it, are ther organizations that will repair it and rebuild it and give it to needy kids that want to get into cycling? Is there a steel fanatic that wants it and will pay for shipping? I am just trying to avoid thowing it in a dumpster as it gave me such good service for over 10 years.

Thanks

55/Rad

Trade it - what size is it? What do you need?

55/Rad

jsharr

Strip it of all parts, clean it, polish it and hang it on a wall. Maybe go to the craft store and buy one of those clock kits and install a clock movement in the bottom bracket and have a one off Bianchi wall clock.

mooglinux

im kind of a vintage bikes guy, though not intentionally. if you dont have space for it, givre it away (by the way, how much would it cost to ship it to gilbert, arizona?) i like those old ones, they are really quite decent. im definatly interested in it.

nova

Bet you got slammed with messages heheh. Frames like that are easy to fix being steel so im guessing some one got a great frame for shipping.

DannoXYZ 

I can revive i! Just stick it in a jig, align and fillet-braze the joint. What size is it?

nova

To complex unless its totaly broken loose. My dad could fix that sucker up in like 3 minutes no jig and youd never know it was ever cracked. Other than his weld would prob look better than original heh. Hes been a body man for 30 to 40 years and has been doing welding etc nearly as long.

Brass stick welding is sick easy. I always wondered how a frame builder could weld inside the frame turns out they drop soft brass billets in to the frame tube and heat the tube. (yeh i know i asume im the last to kow about that heh)

Personaly if i had the cash id get that frame quick get it fixxed and ither ride it or swap it depending on size. Being broke sucks :\

DannoXYZ 

Well, if the crack was all the way around a tube, you can actually bend the frame and not even know it. Like that big guy's Huffy that cracked all the way through at the BB. The downtube and chainstays can get pushed to one side. Then if you push the seat-tube to the side to line up the crack, you'll actually have a frame that's slightly taco'ed.

I actually think fillet brazing is better than lugs. You've got a thicker joint at the junction and it's smoothly beveled for minimum stress-risers. Lugged frames always seem to break right at the 90-degree bend or on the tubing right where it meets the lug. That's why the high-end frames always had their lugs filed and tapered at the ends, to let it flex more where it meets the tubing to relieve the stress-riser. The points on a lug does a similar function.

sydney

What a load.

sydney

Another load.

puddin' legs

your Campione D'Italia isn't a classic or collectible nor will it be, so don't bank on selling it for much of anything. I like the idea of doing the repair and then donating it to a youth program though.

DannoXYZ 

Oh yeah? You have any quantitative test data comparing lugged vs. fillet-brazed frames on standardized tests?

Take a look at some of few actually-instrumented testing done by Damon Rinard and others on numerous frames of different materials and construction methods:

Frame Deflection Test
FEA Structural Analysis: A New Tool for Bicycle Frame Design
LIGHT Article - 12 High End Frames in the EFBe Fatigue Test

When it comes down to actual stress testing, a lugged steel frame failed the fastest at only 57k cycles. The two welded steel frames lasted much better at 77/78k each. Fillet-brazing wasn't tested here, but you can reference that comparison in any number of SAE journals. Brazing actually ends up much stronger than welding for thin-wall steel tubing as you don't have the carbide formation and migration from the HAZ compared to welding. I'm sure if they had tested a Serotta here, it would have lasted well over 125k cycles.

Of course it depends upon the materials too. The early chromoly and magnanese-based alloys have higher carbon content that didn't take to welding too well, fillet-brazing and silver-solder with lugs were better. However, with the higher-strength more-modern low-carbon steels with some titanium added to prevent carbon-migration, TIG-welding ends up being the strongest and lightest construction method.

Incidently, the longest lasting, strongest frames that never broke even at the 200K cycle limit of the test were the carbon and welded aluminium ones. Also some of the stiffest as well.

nova

If you say so.

Go learn how frames are built by major mass production manus. A bianchi isnt a hand made frame. So they wont be hand welded. Chance are they set the frame parts up in a jig with a very small gap between the various tubes applied heat to each location melted the brass billet or brass fileings they placed inside the tube and allowed it to flow out the gaps to give a strong and smooth weld.

I just seen this very thing on a episode of how its made on science channel. But ive known how its done for years. Seen it done infact. Was in norton auto body and the teacher was workign on a rail buggy's smaller frame sections. And simply cut a brass rod in to small pieces left hair small gap at each joint and hit it with the welding torch. The brass flowed out the hair fine gap and made a perfect weld.

nova

Brazing in any form is very strong. In auto body class we had to take a mild steel bar cut it in half then braze it with a butt joint. To pass the test the weld had to be as strong as the rest of the bar or stronger. I passed easly and i sucked at welding. The test was a tensile strength test. My bar snapped about 3 inches past the weld meaning my weld was at least as strong as the rest of the bar. You can also use steel fillet welding on bike frames. But like you said its not as strong do to carbon migration etc. You have to reheat treat the metal after. If you do this metal fillet welding is stronger than braze fillet. Its obviously more costly as there alot more work involed.

As for the ops frame he said crack not break. If this is true then the crack has not messed up the geometry of the frame and is likly just a partial depth crack. You could probably repair the frame just by reheating the existing brass braze. Nice cicular motion with the torch tip and call it a day

dragonflybikes

Thanks for all of the responses. The crack is not 100% around. It only goes about 80% around and when not pedaling hard on it you can barely see the crack, but when you give it a force you see the crack open up a little.

mooglinux: if you really ive in Gilbert Arizona the shipping cost is the cost of you driving to north Phoenix and picking it up.

55/Rad and anyone else, I am not looking for any money for the frame. I just don't want to trhow it in the trash. If you feel obligated to give me something for it, then here are some ideas: pedal wrench, orange handlebar tape, orange bike bag, orange or carbon bottle cages, anything else for the bike that is orange, a nice seat with a cut out that you tried but hated and have lying around, possibly something else that you didn't like or upgraded, but is in good condition that you have just lying around.

Thanks

55/Rad

dragonflybikes - what size is it?

55/Rad

Nessism

The frame needs to have the seat tube replaced to perform a proper repair. No framebuilder worth their salt would just weld the crack together. Given the low value of the frame in question it's not worth the cost to repair. Time to move on.

v1nce

Nice to Sydney get b**chsmacked (again). Most of the few 'loads' and 'piles' i see on BF consist of the 'wisdom' he chooses to share on these boards.

Interesting info on that brazing, welding and testing.

dragonflybikes

55/Rad When measuring from the center of the bottom bracket up the seat tube to the center of the top tube I am getting 55.5cm. I know that I shouldn't be getting a 1/2 measurement but it is what I got. If you want any other measurements just let me know.

Enthalpic

BS. Sydney gives good advice 99% of the time.

puddin' legs

I don't know about what's most recent, but I do know that 10-12 years ago, Reparto Corsa frames where all handbuilt. The OP's wasn't.

SDRider

You were doing great up to that point. I just seen? You need to unlearn that hick grammar, it will benefit you greatly in life.

sydney

Well, it's not about fillet brazed vs lugged construction or even tig welding for that matter. Either will last a lifetime if done right,and either will fail,miserabley if done by a moron. The real issue is about repairing a busted steel lugged steel frame and doing it right, not some ghetto fix that will just fail again. ....Besides you are just generalizing and mixing a fact or two(maybe??) with a whole lot of BS. See post #17. The guy is a framebuilder and doesn't toss the BW.

sydney

Yeah, if you say so....That ain't how your repair a busted lugged frame tho.... See post #17.

sydney

He wasn't even doing well up to then....He says it's ok on the internet...lol...