reneuend

I'll be riding the required brevets to qualify for the PBP next spring. If you have experience with long brevets, what do you suggest for outfitting your bike?

OC Roadie

You might want to PM Machka. I hope some people reply, because I'm too toying with the idea of PBP in 2007 and have never done anything over a double century.

Machka 

OK, first of all, in order to qualify for the PBP you have to do the SR series (a 200K, 300K, 400K, and 600K) in the year of the PBP. A Randonneuring "year" is from November 1st to October 31st (don't ask me why). So ... in other words ... in order to qualify for the PBP, you need to do your SR series between November 1, 2006 and June 15, 2007. Therefore, any brevets you do this coming season will be practice runs and won't actually qualify you for that event. Nevertheless, I would still recommend doing them ... the more practice runs the better!!

Now about what to carry:

I divide the stuff I carry into 7 categories to help me remember it all:


1. Bicycle: this includes my bicycle itself (making sure it is in good repair and set up correctly), my bags (handlebar and Carradice usually), racks, waterbottles and possibly my camelbak, lights, computer, etc.

2. Tools: tire changing stuff (pump, tubes, folding tire, levers, patches, and boots), a multitool, fiberfix spoke, spare cables, black electrical tape, zip ties, lock, etc.

3. Medical: pain killers, sinus medication, inhaler, bandages, sunscreen, anti-bacterial soap, baby wipes, space blanket, cream, lip balm, toothbrush and paste, etc.

4. Clothing: rain gear, reflective gear, shorts, tights, long-sleeved wool top, vest, etc.

5. Personal: ID, camera, money, brevet card, maps, alarm clock, etc.

6. Nutrition: energy bars, gels, gatorade powder, etc.


And if I'm going to be camping before or after the brevet/randonnee, I will pack camping gear ... which I will leave in storage while I'm on the brevet/randonnee

7. Camping: tent, sleeping bag, sleeping pad, cooking gear, etc.


If you've got any other questions about Randonneuring, I'd be happy to try to answer them. I've been doing this for 5 years now and have four 1200K randonnees under my belt now. (see my website in the signature line below).


Oh, I should add ... I tend to carry a lot. Some riders don't carry nearly this much stuff. But then I do my brevets up here in Canada, through the middle of absolutely nowhere with no services, and with weather that could do anything from a massive heat wave to torrential rain to hail to snow ... and sometimes all of that on one ride. I ride prepared for just about anything!!

OC Roadie

Good info Machka, on the Brevets and even the 1200km rides, are there many riders without racks? Or are racks pretty much standard issue randonneuring equipment. I ask because neither of my bikes have seat stays that have rack mounts. Thanks

Machka 

No, not all riders use "official" racks. Some use seatpost racks (I did for my first couple years of Randonneuring), and some use seatpost mounted bag systems. I think Carradice has a couple of those ... like really large seatpacks.

I also tour before and after my longer randonnees, so for that I need the racks because I bring panniers etc. with me on the tours. I do leave the panniers in storage for the actual randonnee (at the hostel/motel, or with friends), or sometimes I'll send my panniers up the road as my bag drops if that option is available.

But I think it all depends on how much you want to carry, or how comfortable you are doing without stuff. And most Randonneurs go through an evolution with what they carry. After a few brevets you begin to realize that you've never touched this and are highly unlikely to, so you leave this behind ... but then you see someone with that and decide that you'd like to have that too, so you add that! One of the best parts of an event like the PBP is going around and looking at everyone's setup!! You can get some great ideas!!

And one of the reasons I recommend doing the brevets this year, as well as next year, is that it gives you a chance to piece together what works and what doesn't. A lot of it is experimentation. Even after doing this for 5 years, I still change bits and pieces with my setup. I'm currently fighting with my lighting.

Polonswim

OK, first this is NOT a pick-up line. Second, I would love to see your legs. Any legs that go 750 miles at a time on a bike have got to be incredible. Bike wise that is. Ok, they are probably nice in other ways too, but I was really thinking about the bike part.

I guess I just have to build up to that kind of distance. I do think it would be fun to try.

reneuend

I looked through your photo gallery. Its very inspiring!
Thanks for your advice.

Paul L.

Just to chime in, I once got 14 flats on a 300k permanent I rode solo, so my advice would be a lot of patches because in certain areas of this country (USA that is, don't know about other areas) when it rains the thorns in the road get bad (fortunately I had 12 patches and 2 extra tubes, as is though the last flat I couldn't patch but it was slow enough I was able to make the last mile to finish 30 minutes before my time ran out)..

I have seen people with some pretty cool seat bags that were so big they needed straps to go down to the dropouts for stability (I think the one I saw was made by Jandd).

Last year I used a frame bag I designed (held my hydration bladder and had room for other stuff too) and it worked through the 400k and I am pretty sure it would have worked for the 600k too if my back had been more cooperative. Now that I am on a recumbent though I have a seatbag that I am eager to put through the "real" test of a full series starting next month.

Machka 

Yes those goatshead things on the Last Chance were a PAIN!! I'd never encountered them before.

I usually bring 2 tubes for a ride 300K and less, and 3 tubes for my longer rides. On the Last Chance, I was warned about the goatsheads and I think I had three tubes with me and a couple in each drop bag. Plus patches, of course.

And this brings up another point too ... you've got to know how to change a tire if you're going to ride brevets, as well as being able to do other minor repairs. You're on your own out there, often miles away from civilization. There are rarely support vehicles (and even if there are, they aren't supposed to help you anyway unless it is a life-threatening situation) ... and on my events I do a lot of them solo, or maybe with one or two other people who may or may not be able to help me.

merlinextraligh

ok, really stupid question, where do you sleep? get food? Are these things supported (i.e. food at rest stops), or do you have to carry all of it yourself?

Marcello

Machka,

In the packing list you posted earlier I noticed that you carry spare cables. Are broken cables something that you had to deal with on your brevets? I never learned how to fix a broken cable or a broken spoke, but I probably should learn, before I need to. What kind of "minor repairs" are common on brevets?

And speaking of spokes, I also noticed the fiberfix spoke on your list, something I was not familiar with. I googled "Fiberfix" and I immediately added it to my shopping list for my next trip to my LBS. Thanks for mentioning it.

Machka 

There are no stupid questions ... I wondered all those things when I started out too.

Food: When the organizers design the routes, they have to include "controls" where we get our brevet cards signed. On the odd occasion they will include self-signing controls in the middle of nowhere, but most of the time these controls are in towns. Some randonneuring clubs actually have volunteers who man the controls which would be located in community halls or a motel room or something. I've never experienced this on anything less than 1200K. On all my brevets, our controls are simply the convenience store or restaurant of our choice ... and we get the cashier or waitress to sign our cards.

These controls are usually located about every 50-100 kms apart, depending on the length of the ride, and the availability of towns. So we can buy food there. We can also buy food in any other towns we happen to come across. I usually carry enough food to take me at least 100 kms (5 energy bars), and sometimes more if I know I'll be riding through the night and there will be nothing open.

On my third 600K, for example, I was riding solo so I had the freedom to stop wherever I wanted without losing the group or making anyone impatient. I wasn't sure about the route, so at about 6 pm, I rolled into a small town that had a grocery store still open. I bought food to eat there, as well as some food to take with me just in case nothing else was open between there and my next control (where I suspected I would arrive at 2 am). Three hours later, I rolled into another town, and to my surprise, a gas station convenience store was still open, so again, I ate there and stocked up for the night ... and it was a good thing I did there because nothing else was open between there and the control.

It was the same sort of situation on the Last Chance 1200K - between about 5 pm and 7 am ... there was NOTHING open!! We were warned, so we could plan ahead.

So, you don't have to carry enough food to get you through the whole ride, just enough to get you to the next town or control that has something open ... plus a bit extra, just in case.


Sleep: On the 200K, 300K, and 400K, you don't need to sleep. Anything less than 24 hours can be done straight through. If you happen to want to catch a quick nap, the ditch, or a picnic table, or a park bench, or a sidewalk are all as good places as any.

There is an on-going debate about sleep on the 600K. I did my first 600K with no sleep, and all the rest with sleep. IMO, there's not much difference in how I felt. However, if you are going to get some sleep, plan to sleep less than 30 minutes at a time, or multiples of 90 minutes.

The adult human REM cycle is 90 minutes. If you get 90 minutes of sleep, you can wake up feeling relatively refreshed because you've been through one complete cycle. If you get less than 30 minutes of sleep, you can also wake up feeling relatively refreshed because you haven't fallen into a really deep sleep yet. However, if you wake up at about 60 minutes or so, you'll have woken out of the deep sleep part and you'll likely stagger around feeling quite disoriented and groggy for some time.

As for where to sleep ... again ditches, picnic tables, park benches, sidewalks, etc. are all viable options which have been used by many Randonneurs (including me). When you're tired enough, you'll sleep anywhere!!

On the Last Chance I slept for about 15 minutes on a gravel side road because I didn't want to sleep in the ditch. There was a dead snake on the road right there, and I figured it probably came from the ditch, and it could have friends still in the ditch!! Later on the Last Chance, the friend I was riding with and I decided we needed sleep in the middle of the night before carrying on so we went over to a church which had one of those big rugs for wiping your feet outside. We pulled it to a corner where there wasn't so much wind and curled up in our space blankets on it and slept for a while.

Occasionally the club will get together and book a motel room at about the 400K point. That has happened on three of my 600K events, and was very welcome! And on most 1200K events they will indicate in the rider information package which controls are considered sleep controls. At those controls they'll provide you with some sort of sleeping arrangements ... sometimes just a gym mat on the floor with a blanket ... sometimes an actual bed!

It's a good idea to ask what sort of arrangements are being made.

Paul L.

Kevlar tires are almost essential in some areas. Tubes are nice and fast, I always make sure I carry patches too as they are pretty light and cheap insurance against a DNF in case of another encounter like I had on that 300k. There is a lot to be said for having a good dependable pump along too. In addition to being able to do simple repairs it is good to know how to jury rig your bike too, things like shortening the chain if your rear deraileur goes out to make a three speed, or tieing a broken cable off in a gear you need should you have a cable break (of course if you carry spare cables as you state this is not something you need to worry about although it could be handy to get you to a more comfortable place to chcange the cable).

One thing Randonneuring has caused me to concentrate more on, is to find what works dependably in all conditions as opposed to the latest flashy gadgets. A rainy night in the middle of nowhere is no place to find out that new gadget may not be as dependable as you thought it was.

Fat Boy Biker

Our Machka, the undisputed queen of distance cycling. We bow to the Queen.

Steve
-it's good to be the King (or in this case, the Queen).

Machka 

I have never had to deal with broken cables on my brevets, but I have had to deal with them in other situations, and I have heard of it happening on brevets. The cable thing shouldn't be a problem if you have your bicycle tuned up and perhaps the cables replaced if they are looking a little frayed before you start your brevet season. However, if you're riding brevets, and training rides, in the rain a lot, as I was in 2004, they can wear (or rust?) faster.

As for fixing things, I took a couple bicycle maintenance courses. MEC (here in Canada) offers several. REI (in the US) might offer some too. LBSs often offer some as do the local community colleges.

Fortunately, I haven't had to do a lot to my bicycles while on rides, but I do know how to do stuff like change a tire, run cables, replace some of my spokes, and adjust brakes ... as well as dismantling my bicycle to pack it in a box for transportation, and re-mantling my bicycle when I get to where I'm going.

Another Randonneur I know suggested the fiberfix to me ... I've never used it but he swears by them ... for a decent temporary fix at least.

knoregs

I'm the polar opposite of Machka... I carry almost nothing... diclaimer first: I have yet to ride in an official Brevet but I spent '05 riding long distances, trying out different things... I got into the habit of carrying four water bottles for awhile because I don't like to stop... Eventually nixed that... If it's not to hot, I use my messenger bag for the bare minimums... a tube or two, road morph pump, longsleeve base layer if weather dictates, battery for light, couple Clif bars, ziplocks with premeasured drink mix, cash, wireless phone...

so now I stop every two hours for water... mix up endurance fuel, wolf down clif bar, use bathroom, and back on bike... 10 minutes max... good for 250 miles (of course I research my route ahead of time, using internet, etc.)

basically what I'm trying to say is that there is little difference between what I carry on a 90-100 mile ride and what I will carry on a multi-day brevet.

Machka 

I know a few people like you on the Randonneuring circuit!!

I think it all depends on your personal comfort level, and also the availability of external services.

For example, up here in Canada, the weather can turn nasty in a matter of minutes. Look at how I'm dressed for many of my brevets!!
https://ca.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/mac...=/a7af&.src=ph

And in the attached photos ... the first is on a 200K brevet just up the road from where I live in mid-July. A freak storm emerged from the mountains and dropped marble-sized hail on us.

The second is one of many storms that kept circling around on another 200K brevet I did a couple weeks earlier. Fortunately it never hit me dead on, but it sure threatened.

I DNF'd my first 600K attempt this past summer because it POURED for 27 straight hours ... roads were being washed out and towns were being evacuated. The temperature never got above 10C/50F, and the wind was a howling headwind. I know at one place, I had to shift into an easier gear while I was descending. I ended up with the early stages of hypothermia by the time I had decided to call it quits.

So ... if it is usually nice in your area, then you can get away with just a long-sleeved base layer, or maybe a light jacket, or something. But if your area is rather unpredictable, bringing a few extra pieces of clothing can make quite a difference in your comfort level.


Also, in terms of external services ... if you ride through an area where there are a lot of little towns, where you could pick up supplies, or find a ride back home, or whatever, then I think you can get away with carrying less. I ride through some pretty barren country, often with nothing there, or nothing open, for hours. If something did happen to go wrong ..... I'd better be able to fix it enough to get to the next town, which could be another 2 or 3 hours away by bicycle.

However, on the 1200K brevets I usually carry less on the bicycle with me than I do on a 400K or 600K. The reason for that is that most of the 1200Ks I've been on have quite a bit of support. At the very least they have bag drops, so I can store any extra clothing, food, tools, medical supplies etc. strategically along the way. Some also have sweep vehicles to check up on riders (even though they can't actually help you much), and others have mechanics and medical personnel at the controls to help you along. For example, when I rode the PBP in 2003, I carried everything with me - I didn't use any bag drops - but I didn't need to carry as much as I did because the controls were extremely well stocked with food and supplies, and they had mechanics and a medical staff at each one.


I think a new rider should check with their club to see what the route is like, how many services are available, if there will be support or not, and so on ... and then use that information to determine how much or how little to carry.

Marcello

Looking at the picture it appears that you are using a fairly large saddlebag, perhaps a 15 liter Carradice. Do you think that is a reasonable size for a long brevet? My Arkel trunk bag is probably half that size, great for commuting but not for long, unsupported rides.

And is that a Bento Box I see above the top tube? I saw one at my LBS, but I wasn't sure if it is something I would use. Do you find it useful?

patentcad

What in the hell is a 'brevet'?

Cycling is bizarre and hated by the rest of the world enough WITHOUT the strange French terms (as if half the lunkheads driving pickups in the US wouldn't run you over if they even thought there was anything French about you in the first place).

Allez dude. Cest la vie.

Machka 

OK, first of all .... cycling IS French!! The Americans only adopted it later.


Second, a brevet is a timed, self-supported, long distance event under the santioning of two organizations based in France, the Audax Club Parisien and the Brevet Randonneur Mondeaux. A Super Randonneurs series consists of the following distances which have to be completed in the following times:

200K = 13.5 hours
300K = 20 hours
400K = 27 hours
600K = 40 hours

Those times include all breaks for eating, sleeping, etc.

There are three other distances, which are commonly known as randonnees, instead of brevets:

1000K = 75 hours
1200K = 90 hours
1400K = 1?? hours (I forget the time limit on that one)

Here are some sites that might help you discover a whole new type of cycling. The first few are Randonneuring organizations who hold brevets:

https://www.randonneurs.bc.ca/links/links.html

https://www.rusa.org/

https://www.audax.org.au/index.asp

https://www.audax.uk.net/index2.htm


And these are some other sites about long distance cycling:

https://www.ultracycling.com/

https://www.pactour.com/

https://www.adventurecorps.com/

https://www.bikecenturies.com/


Now a bit of history ... Randonneuring was the inspiration for a little event you might be familiar with called the Tour de France (ever heard of it?)

https://cycling.ahands.org/pbp2003/history.html
https://www.seattlerandonneur.org/in...ando_intro.html
https://www.machka.net/pbp/machka.htm

"A Brief History of Randonneuring and The Paris-Brest-Paris Event

Originally conceived of and run by Pierre Giffard, editor of the French newspaper, "Le Petit Journal" in 1891, Paris-Brest-Paris (PBP) is the oldest timed bicycle event you can participate in today. Giffard hit upon the idea of a cycling event of enormous proportions. This was not going to be any mere race; this was going to be a test. He had conceived of a test "not primarily of speed but brains, skill and endurance." He had hit upon the idea of a 750 mile (1200 km) event going from Paris to Brest on the Atlantic Ocean and returning to Paris.

At daybreak on Sunday, September 6, 1891, 206 riders left a cheering crowd in front of Le Petit Journal. The race was between Charles Terront and Jacques Jiel-Laval. There could not have been two more different riders than Terront and Jiel-Laval. Terront was hot-blooded and impetuous. Jiel-Laval, on the other hand, was coldly calculating, sticking methodically to an hour-by-hour schedule from which he would not deviate. In the end, the mad, impetuous Terront won the first PBP in 71 hours 22 minutes, even by today's standards a very respectable time. His closest finisher, the ice-water veined Jiel-Laval, finished 8 hours behind Terront. Terront had battled fatigue with nothing more than strong French coffee.

Encouraged by the success and notoriety of PBP, another Frenchman started the modern Olympics. The Tour de France was started in 1903, again inspired by Paris-Brest-Paris. No other bicycle race held today is as old as PBP. Only Liege-Bastogne-Liege comes close and it is 13 years the younger."


And from this article:
https://www.answers.com/topic/paris-brest-paris

"The 1901 Paris-Brest was sponsored not only by Le Petit Journal, but also by _L'Auto-Velo_, edited by none other than Henri Desgrange. For the first time, professionals were segregated from the "touriste-routier" group (in which a 65-year-old would ride, finishing in just over 200 hours). The two sponsoring newspapers organized an efficient telegraph system to relay results to their Paris presses, and the public, entranced, followed the exploits of Maurice Garin, who won in just over 52 hours over 112 other professionals.

So many newspapers were sold, in fact, that Georges Lefebre at L'Auto-Velo was inspired to present the idea of an even bigger, grander race, the Tour de France, to his editor, Henri Desgrange. Under Desgrange's leadership, the first Tour happened two years later, in 1903, with stages so long that it more closely resembled PBP than the modern Tour."

Marcello

From the Wikipedia article on Brevets:

A brevet or randonnée is an organised long-distance bicycle ride. Cyclists - who, in this discipline, may be referred to as randonneurs - follow a designated but unmarked route (usually 200km to 600km), passing through check-point controls, and must complete the course within specified time limits. These limits, while challenging, still allow the ride to be completed at a comfortable pace - there is no requirement to cycle at racing speeds or employ road bicycle racing strategies.

Randonnée is a French word which loosely translates to 'ramble or 'long journey'. Brevet means 'certificate' and refers to the card carried by randonneurs which gets stamped at controls; it is also used to refer to the event itself, ie: a certificated ride.

Randonneurs do not compete against other cyclists; randonnées are a test of endurance, self-sufficiency and bicycle touring skills. Riders are expected to carry appropriate clothing for inclement weather, spare parts and tools needed for likely repairs. Brevets frequently involve night riding and then participants are required to carry lights, spare bulbs and reflective gear. No specialist bicycle is required; most riders use either a racing bicycle or a fast touring bicycle - several manufacturers provide models with a Randonneur or Audax name to reflect their target market.

(Tons more info at Randonneurs USA)

If you were to remove all French and French-derived words out of the English language, you would be missing a lot.

Machka 

I'm using the Nelson Long-flap Carradice. I'm not sure what its size is. For shorter brevets and the 1200Ks it is actually too big. I have used it as my drop bag on 2 of the 1200Ks I've done, and opted to carry something smaller with me. However, it is good for the 400K and 600K brevets because I usually carry more clothes with me on those.

And yes, that is a Bento box! I love the Bento box for two main reasons:

1. As rides progress, I tend to be less inclined to eat ... especially during the night ... and especially if eating is going to require any kind of effort like digging an energy bar out of somewhere. However, if my food is right in front of me, I will eat. My Bento bag carries about 2 energy bar which will take me through about 2-3 hours of cycling.

2. I ride in the winter for 6 months of the year with heavy gloves. Digging energy bars out of a handlebar bag or pocket with heavy gloves is very difficult. But with the Bento bag, I open the energy bars when I'm at a control or rest stop, and I can easily get at them, even with heavy gloves on.

knoregs

they're probably the ones asking to borrow a spare tire



sounds like a fun ride... I remember a similar ride this past spring... not a 600K, just a century or so... maybe 200k... when I left the house all looked fine, a little cool but the radar didn't show anything to worry about... about 40 miles along the clouds started building up, nice and dark and ominous... no turning back at this point... about the time I got to the top of Smugglers Notch it started pouring and the temp at the notch must've been about 40... the 9 mile descent at 40+ mph into Jeffersonville had me practically convulsing... the rain never let up... I was happy to get home to a warm shower... funny thing is my lips turned blue from being so cold and they stayed that way for hours... guess I wasd chilled right to the bone


Do you ever plan to do BMB?

Machka 

Yep!! It's on my list of things to do in 2006!! Very scary!!!

knoregs

cool... I was hoping to do it too... course goes right through my town

do lots o' hill work