Dura-Ace and Record brifters are hi-tech and all that...
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: "Gosh honey, you pass more like Tony Rominger..."
Posts: 3,218
Bikes: 2005 Scott CR1 Pro - 1992 Panasonix Fixed Conversion 60tx20t
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
...but nothing is as easy to dial in than the old friction down-tube shifters.
I recently picked- up an 80's Univega that I plan on pimping out as a commuter bike and I lovedthe simplicity of the friction shifters on it. No annoying chain rub or accidental upshifting exists because of the simplicity of the action and you can trim the front and rear derailleurs down to the mm.
Modern brifters are great for power-shifting in a race but as for touring or casual riding, those old down-tubers are heaven!
Anybody else agree with me on this?
I recently picked- up an 80's Univega that I plan on pimping out as a commuter bike and I lovedthe simplicity of the friction shifters on it. No annoying chain rub or accidental upshifting exists because of the simplicity of the action and you can trim the front and rear derailleurs down to the mm.
Modern brifters are great for power-shifting in a race but as for touring or casual riding, those old down-tubers are heaven!
Anybody else agree with me on this?
__________________
"How did all those 'Keep Off the Grass' signs get there?"
"How did all those 'Keep Off the Grass' signs get there?"
#2
Faith-Vigilance-Service
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Port Orchard, WA
Posts: 8,330
Bikes: Trinity, Paradisus, Centurion, Mongoose, Trek
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Hey,
Aren't you that "Steel is Real, and Carbon/Ti/Aluminum sucks guy?"
Aren't you that "Steel is Real, and Carbon/Ti/Aluminum sucks guy?"
__________________
President, OCP
--"Will you have some tea... at the theatre with me?"--
President, OCP
--"Will you have some tea... at the theatre with me?"--
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 182
Bikes: Colnago Master-Light, Fuji Cross-Comp Pro (CX), Giant Kronos
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Cool indeed...but what about friction bar-ends too? Now that's cool for a 'muter bike. I want to get some badly for my work bike.
I just got a bike (2 bikes actually) in the last 6 months that are my first experience with brifters. I really do like them - but I totally agree about the chainrub thing (I can only acess 1/2 my rear cassette from each ring before I start to get rubbing (I need to tweak something I guess). I did ride a campy brifter bike recently and really appriciated the ability to tweak the FD from the brifter - as opposed to my ultegra brifters.
I just got a bike (2 bikes actually) in the last 6 months that are my first experience with brifters. I really do like them - but I totally agree about the chainrub thing (I can only acess 1/2 my rear cassette from each ring before I start to get rubbing (I need to tweak something I guess). I did ride a campy brifter bike recently and really appriciated the ability to tweak the FD from the brifter - as opposed to my ultegra brifters.
#4
Reverend
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Mateo, CA
Posts: 528
Bikes: 2005 Trek 2100, Iro Angus Fixed Gear
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I like all the modern designs with the brifters and such, but for some reason I agree. My dad's old bike (not that old, a late 80's Miyata) has some sort of indexed downtube shifting, but the action is great. It is just so clean and crisp and you can get some trim going, which is great. I really like the system for its simplicity, but as far as shifting while sprinting or climbing, it is nice to have the brifters (and probably safer in every case, too)
#5
Baby it's cold outside...
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SK, Canada
Posts: 7,310
Bikes: Trek 5000, Rocky Mountain Wedge, GT Karakoram K2, Litespeed Tuscany
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#6
I can't find my pants
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: UMASS, Amherst/ Swick, MA
Posts: 2,331
Bikes: 07 Specialized Langster Comp,06 Kona King Zing, 06 Specialized Rockhopper Pro Disc; 03 LOOK KG461;(destroyed by suv); 85 Panasonic Team America; 73 Peugeot U0-8; 94 Balance Super B BMX; 04 Diamondback Outlook MTB, Diamondback DBR DH
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
1 Post
Same. I really like the index shifting but my commuter has downtube friction shifters and I just love how smooth they are.
#7
Tiocfáidh ár Lá
I just rode my 83 Nashbar touring bike into work with Sun Tour XC DT shifters. Everything is original and I never had a problem with them. They work great and probably will long after I am gone. But like you said the STI can't be beat for the racing sceen.
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Leandro
Posts: 2,900
Bikes: Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra, Basso Loto, Pinarello Stelvio, Redline Cyclocross
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 336 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
1 Post
As someone that bought the second pair of STI shifters in northern California I've had just about everything.
I took out my C40 last Sunday and it was very nice having a nice Ergo lever under my hand. It made me feel so 2000-ish.
I never liked friction shifting because I can't hear the chain rub and someone has to come up beside me and tell me to trim it out. So indexed shifting is my preference.
I put my first cyclocross bike together about 5 years ago or more. I put on barend shifters on it and it was a nice shifting bike. Since then I built a lot more off road bikes (as opposed to mountain bikes mind you) and been liking barends a more every time I use them.
I've built 4 bikes up in the last 5 months (not counting another three or four for my brother and his wife) and put bar ends on all of them.
Barends definitely are not as convenient as Ergo. They don't give you that feeling that says "Cadillac" either.
But they are relatively cheap, reliable as heck and "good enough".
I wanted to have a Thoroughtly Modern bicycle and ended up with perhaps two of them that qualify as the sine qua non of bicycle - the Colnago C40 and the Eddy Merckx Ex Pro titanium bike.
I love these bikes and will never sell them. I may even be buried with them.... well, maybe that's unfair and I'll will them to some tall person.
But bicycling is about you and the bike and even a Motiv is a bike. I find that I prefer bikes as simple as I'm willing to put up with and cheap means simple. I don't like the idea of owning a bike with 47 parts in the brake/shift levers. And now that I've used the best I can truely say that good enough is plenty good enough.
Gimme barends from now on.
And as for MTB's - I've used all of that as well and I STILL prefer the old Suntour indexed thumbshifters.
I took out my C40 last Sunday and it was very nice having a nice Ergo lever under my hand. It made me feel so 2000-ish.
I never liked friction shifting because I can't hear the chain rub and someone has to come up beside me and tell me to trim it out. So indexed shifting is my preference.
I put my first cyclocross bike together about 5 years ago or more. I put on barend shifters on it and it was a nice shifting bike. Since then I built a lot more off road bikes (as opposed to mountain bikes mind you) and been liking barends a more every time I use them.
I've built 4 bikes up in the last 5 months (not counting another three or four for my brother and his wife) and put bar ends on all of them.
Barends definitely are not as convenient as Ergo. They don't give you that feeling that says "Cadillac" either.
But they are relatively cheap, reliable as heck and "good enough".
I wanted to have a Thoroughtly Modern bicycle and ended up with perhaps two of them that qualify as the sine qua non of bicycle - the Colnago C40 and the Eddy Merckx Ex Pro titanium bike.
I love these bikes and will never sell them. I may even be buried with them.... well, maybe that's unfair and I'll will them to some tall person.
But bicycling is about you and the bike and even a Motiv is a bike. I find that I prefer bikes as simple as I'm willing to put up with and cheap means simple. I don't like the idea of owning a bike with 47 parts in the brake/shift levers. And now that I've used the best I can truely say that good enough is plenty good enough.
Gimme barends from now on.
And as for MTB's - I've used all of that as well and I STILL prefer the old Suntour indexed thumbshifters.
#10
Senior Member
Originally Posted by Sincitycycler
...but nothing is as easy to dial in than the old friction down-tube shifters.
I recently picked- up an 80's Univega that I plan on pimping out as a commuter bike and I lovedthe simplicity of the friction shifters on it. No annoying chain rub or accidental upshifting exists because of the simplicity of the action and you can trim the front and rear derailleurs down to the mm.
Modern brifters are great for power-shifting in a race but as for touring or casual riding, those old down-tubers are heaven!
Anybody else agree with me on this?
I recently picked- up an 80's Univega that I plan on pimping out as a commuter bike and I lovedthe simplicity of the friction shifters on it. No annoying chain rub or accidental upshifting exists because of the simplicity of the action and you can trim the front and rear derailleurs down to the mm.
Modern brifters are great for power-shifting in a race but as for touring or casual riding, those old down-tubers are heaven!
Anybody else agree with me on this?
Just because something is new doesn't mean better. I've used just about every type of shifter in the last 30 years and they all have their place. Friction is the easiest to use and lowest maintainence shifter ever made. The Suntour micro friction model is a superb unit. Good luck
Tim
#11
Used to be a climber..
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Clarita, CA
Posts: 6,849
Bikes: 2016 Ridley Fenix SL, 2020 Trek Emonda ALR (rim brake)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
3 Posts
Originally Posted by cyclintom
And as for MTB's - I've used all of that as well and I STILL prefer the old Suntour indexed thumbshifters.
#13
Unique Vintage Steel
Dang, just when I thought I'd never agree with anything that Sin said... he has to go and say this.
Started off with DT friction here...
Which got moved here...
And even this one is in friction mode...
I'll probably buy brifters for the Gazelle rebuild in a year and a half. But even then the 'Cuda will always be friction downtubes. And I have a pair of barcons that will find their way to a bike too... someday.
Started off with DT friction here...
Which got moved here...
And even this one is in friction mode...
I'll probably buy brifters for the Gazelle rebuild in a year and a half. But even then the 'Cuda will always be friction downtubes. And I have a pair of barcons that will find their way to a bike too... someday.
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 1,002
Bikes: 2006 Cannondale R700 2002 Cannondale R3000 2013 Masi CX
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I'm still getting used to the friction DTs on my latest (and oldest) bike. My MTB came with indexed triggers which were the most intuitive and the brifters on the modern road bike only took 10 minutes to get used to. I do like being able to adjust the trim, but for immediate switches on varied terrain, I think I'll keep my indexed.
#16
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,275
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1428 Post(s)
Liked 697 Times
in
353 Posts
There are arguments to be made for downtube friction shifting, but ease of use isn't one of them. Does anyone actually think that it's more diffficult to flick your wrist, and hit the gear perfectly, than it is to take your hand off the handlebar, bend down, and move the lever the precise amount so that the ger doesn't grind?
You can argue friction shifters are lighter, less mechanically complex, arguably more durable, but it's a loosing proposition to say they're easier to use.
You can argue friction shifters are lighter, less mechanically complex, arguably more durable, but it's a loosing proposition to say they're easier to use.
#17
Senior Member
Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
but it's a loosing proposition to say they're easier to use.
Tim
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 605
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
1 Post
Originally Posted by Baldanzi
Cool indeed...but what about friction bar-ends too? Now that's cool for a 'muter bike. I want to get some badly for my work bike.
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 605
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
1 Post
Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
You can argue friction shifters are lighter, less mechanically complex, arguably more durable, but it's a loosing proposition to say they're easier to use.
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 605
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
1 Post
Originally Posted by cyclintom
And as for MTB's - I've used all of that as well and I STILL prefer the old Suntour indexed thumbshifters.
The shimano thumbies were not bad either. I fondly remember having Shimano thumby shifters on my old Trek 1400 road bike(Trek and Cannondale used thumbies on some of their road bikes for a short period around 1990).
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Camino, CA
Posts: 1,181
Bikes: Trek 5500 OCLV, Trek Fuel EX 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Nothing wrong with good quality DT friction or indexed shifters -- love that sound of mechanical "white noise" when they are trimmed. Have 'em on both my roadies, but you can't trash bar ends or brifters either. Now maybe stem shifters...
To each his own!
To each his own!
#22
Senior Member
I think that downtube shifters has made me a stronger cyclist. If I'm going up a hill, I can't always reach down and screw with the shifter, I have to just push harder.
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Tagged: Thread(s)
Quoted: Post(s)
Originally Posted by cmcenroe
I like all the modern designs with the brifters and such, but for some reason I agree. My dad's old bike (not that old, a late 80's Miyata) has some sort of indexed downtube shifting, but the action is great. It is just so clean and crisp and you can get some trim going, which is great.
#24
cycle-dog spot
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,538
Bikes: Look, Niner, Ellsworth, Norco, Litespeed
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
The loss of downtube shifter also meant the loss of some interesting cycling skills.
Double shifting with one hand. Slamming the shifter all the way forward on a big sprint. The need to be able to set the front derailleur trim the first time.
Lot of cool one hand gymnastics have gone by the wayside.
I raced friction up til about 1994, before I went to STI. Not a huge disadvantage. But the STI is just so much easier. I won't be going back.
-Z
Double shifting with one hand. Slamming the shifter all the way forward on a big sprint. The need to be able to set the front derailleur trim the first time.
Lot of cool one hand gymnastics have gone by the wayside.
I raced friction up til about 1994, before I went to STI. Not a huge disadvantage. But the STI is just so much easier. I won't be going back.
-Z
#25
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: "Gosh honey, you pass more like Tony Rominger..."
Posts: 3,218
Bikes: 2005 Scott CR1 Pro - 1992 Panasonix Fixed Conversion 60tx20t
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I never said that the downtubes were easier, but they are sweeter shifting. Actually mind click in (kinda indexed) but you can trim them in between. The are 184 Shimano 105s.
Interesting point made abouit how downtubers make you a stronger rider in that you are not always bailing out by shifting... I agree. The shifting mechanism isn't available at your fingertips so you have to power over stuff, especially if you are in a hairy traffic/rough pavement situation where ya gotta grab the bike by the drops and get through the crises.
Interesting point made abouit how downtubers make you a stronger rider in that you are not always bailing out by shifting... I agree. The shifting mechanism isn't available at your fingertips so you have to power over stuff, especially if you are in a hairy traffic/rough pavement situation where ya gotta grab the bike by the drops and get through the crises.
__________________
"How did all those 'Keep Off the Grass' signs get there?"
"How did all those 'Keep Off the Grass' signs get there?"