One thing I have noticed about women roadies...
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One thing I have noticed about women roadies...
...is that in general ( there are exceptions, or course), they don't climb very well, even though they are lightweight. Anybody else notice this on aggressive club rides?
We had an 80 mile almost-century this morning in Vegas (Tour of Summerlin) and while riding with one of the men's Master's (45+) teams in front, I noticed that these many of these fit triathalon-type women go pretty fast on the flats, but as soon as we hit a drag or a sustained 5-6% climb, it's like they hit a wall.
It kind of amazes me because these girls are in shape, maybe 120-130 lbs, yet they look like 250 lb. Clydes when they hit a sustained ascent.
Kind of confused on this because in my mind, I just assume that every who is a lightweight is automatically a strong climber.
$0.02
We had an 80 mile almost-century this morning in Vegas (Tour of Summerlin) and while riding with one of the men's Master's (45+) teams in front, I noticed that these many of these fit triathalon-type women go pretty fast on the flats, but as soon as we hit a drag or a sustained 5-6% climb, it's like they hit a wall.
It kind of amazes me because these girls are in shape, maybe 120-130 lbs, yet they look like 250 lb. Clydes when they hit a sustained ascent.
Kind of confused on this because in my mind, I just assume that every who is a lightweight is automatically a strong climber.
$0.02
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How long have they been riding? It takes a lot of miles (or years) to develop the leg power and technique to climb well. Leg power is the needed ingredient, not to mention aerobic capacity and the desire to suffer.
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Jeannie Golay used to ride around here in Gainesville back in the 1980's. She was pretty good at all types of road riding.
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Originally Posted by Wildwood
How long have they been riding? It takes a lot of miles (or years) to develop the leg power and technique to climb well. Leg power is the needed ingredient, not to mention aerobic capacity and the desire to suffer.
How long have they been riding?
I was hauling my 200 lb carcass past them in a pretty big gear on the hills and they were spinning their shapely asses off at 100+ rpm - it almost seems like they under-gear to a fault - and they don't seem to really get anywhere...
I keep expecting them to drop me like a bad habit and flutter up those suckers since they are carrying 70-80 lbs less weight, and it hasn't happened - yet!
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Just to start this off with background, I'm a 120 pound male recreational cyclist.
You have to remember that, unless the person is a pro cyclist with all her muscle in her legs, or his in my case, the amount of muscle is generally pretty proportional to that of a larger person. By this I mean that, off the bike, a fit 180 lb person and a fit 120 lb person will have roughly the same performance overall.
Now add a 20 pound bike. For the 180 lb person, this is an extra 1/9th of his weight. For a 120 lb person this is an extra 1/6th of his weight! Big difference, which makes lugging the bike up the hill that much harder for the small person.
Furthermore, the rule of thumb is that while volume increases by a factor of 3, surface area increases by a factor of 2. So while the 180 lb person has let's say 1.5 times the muscle of the 120 lb person, he also has only about 1.3 times the volume. Therefore, proportionally the bigger person has the advantage.
When it comes to pro level though, with cyclists having 90% of their whole mass located in 3 or 4 muscles, well, then it gets tricky...
You have to remember that, unless the person is a pro cyclist with all her muscle in her legs, or his in my case, the amount of muscle is generally pretty proportional to that of a larger person. By this I mean that, off the bike, a fit 180 lb person and a fit 120 lb person will have roughly the same performance overall.
Now add a 20 pound bike. For the 180 lb person, this is an extra 1/9th of his weight. For a 120 lb person this is an extra 1/6th of his weight! Big difference, which makes lugging the bike up the hill that much harder for the small person.
Furthermore, the rule of thumb is that while volume increases by a factor of 3, surface area increases by a factor of 2. So while the 180 lb person has let's say 1.5 times the muscle of the 120 lb person, he also has only about 1.3 times the volume. Therefore, proportionally the bigger person has the advantage.
When it comes to pro level though, with cyclists having 90% of their whole mass located in 3 or 4 muscles, well, then it gets tricky...
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Hate to shoot down your theory, Sin, but I know two maybe three girls who are at least as good a climber as me, my GF and two of her biking buddies.
My GF can stay with me on my best days, and on my lazy days she has no mercy. I can live with it because on HER lazy days I make sure I get her back . . . male ego and all, you know what I mean.
My GF's friend is short, about 5'2". I don't know what she weighs, but she has these huge thighs which exhibit no definition at all. They're just blobs, so to speak. I would put my money on her against any man I know. She will kick my @$$ on any hill, and yours too, any day of your choosing.
I had heard that she lives on this tough hill so anytime she bikes she has to finish up on this hill. Just this past winter for the first time I went to a party at this friend's house and I finally got to experience this hill . . . in a car! Now I know why she's such a strong climber. F'ggetaboudit!!! I would move!!
My GF can stay with me on my best days, and on my lazy days she has no mercy. I can live with it because on HER lazy days I make sure I get her back . . . male ego and all, you know what I mean.
My GF's friend is short, about 5'2". I don't know what she weighs, but she has these huge thighs which exhibit no definition at all. They're just blobs, so to speak. I would put my money on her against any man I know. She will kick my @$$ on any hill, and yours too, any day of your choosing.
I had heard that she lives on this tough hill so anytime she bikes she has to finish up on this hill. Just this past winter for the first time I went to a party at this friend's house and I finally got to experience this hill . . . in a car! Now I know why she's such a strong climber. F'ggetaboudit!!! I would move!!
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You need to bear in mind that the muscle mass to bodyweight ratio is generally less in females compared to males of the same weight.
Also, if these were women who looked like they do tris, maybe they were using their tri bikes which are usually higher geared and therefore not suitable for climbing hills. I had this experience on a recent charity ride, on the flats I was passed by this extremely fit looking woman who made me look like I was pedalling backwards, but as soon as we hit a hill I sailed past her like she was pedalling backwards Her bike had a corn-cob cluster, mine has gearing that can practically climb trees - I'm sure if her gearing had been slightly different, she would have powered up the hills and become a dot in the distance.
We watched a road race on local television recently ... all the women competing were world class cyclists and there was one section in the race where the bulk of them got off their bikes and WALKED up the hill - only a handful actually managed to cycle up the hill and they were barely faster than the people walking. Obviously, this was a function of gearing but put a male cyclist of the same weight and fitness on a similarly geared bike, and he would have had no problem with that hill.
Also, if these were women who looked like they do tris, maybe they were using their tri bikes which are usually higher geared and therefore not suitable for climbing hills. I had this experience on a recent charity ride, on the flats I was passed by this extremely fit looking woman who made me look like I was pedalling backwards, but as soon as we hit a hill I sailed past her like she was pedalling backwards Her bike had a corn-cob cluster, mine has gearing that can practically climb trees - I'm sure if her gearing had been slightly different, she would have powered up the hills and become a dot in the distance.
We watched a road race on local television recently ... all the women competing were world class cyclists and there was one section in the race where the bulk of them got off their bikes and WALKED up the hill - only a handful actually managed to cycle up the hill and they were barely faster than the people walking. Obviously, this was a function of gearing but put a male cyclist of the same weight and fitness on a similarly geared bike, and he would have had no problem with that hill.
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i'll preface my comments with the acknowledgement that I know a number of women who can drop mel ike a rock on a climb. That being said, I've observed the same thing has Sincity on a fair number of occassions. It's simply a power to weight ratio thing. They may be lighter, but have less power too. Lots of people can hang in the pack, but on the hills it comes down to power to weight ratio, so it's not unusual to get women on a fast group ride that are strong enough to hang on the flats but not on the hills. Of course you get men like that too.
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...is that as a whole they don't climb very well, even though they are lightweight. Anybody else notice this on aggressive club rides?
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Originally Posted by matagi
You need to bear in mind that the muscle mass to bodyweight ratio is generally less in females compared to males of the same weight.
Also, if these were women who looked like they do tris, maybe they were using their tri bikes which are usually higher geared and therefore not suitable for climbing hills. I had this experience on a recent charity ride, on the flats I was passed by this extremely fit looking woman who made me look like I was pedalling backwards, but as soon as we hit a hill I sailed past her like she was pedalling backwards Her bike had a corn-cob cluster, mine has gearing that can practically climb trees - I'm sure if her gearing had been slightly different, she would have powered up the hills and become a dot in the distance.
We watched a road race on local television recently ... all the women competing were world class cyclists and there was one section in the race where the bulk of them got off their bikes and WALKED up the hill - only a handful actually managed to cycle up the hill and they were barely faster than the people walking. Obviously, this was a function of gearing but put a male cyclist of the same weight and fitness on a similarly geared bike, and he would have had no problem with that hill.
Also, if these were women who looked like they do tris, maybe they were using their tri bikes which are usually higher geared and therefore not suitable for climbing hills. I had this experience on a recent charity ride, on the flats I was passed by this extremely fit looking woman who made me look like I was pedalling backwards, but as soon as we hit a hill I sailed past her like she was pedalling backwards Her bike had a corn-cob cluster, mine has gearing that can practically climb trees - I'm sure if her gearing had been slightly different, she would have powered up the hills and become a dot in the distance.
We watched a road race on local television recently ... all the women competing were world class cyclists and there was one section in the race where the bulk of them got off their bikes and WALKED up the hill - only a handful actually managed to cycle up the hill and they were barely faster than the people walking. Obviously, this was a function of gearing but put a male cyclist of the same weight and fitness on a similarly geared bike, and he would have had no problem with that hill.
the bulk of them got off their bikes and WALKED up the hill - only a handful actually managed to cycle up the hill and they were barely faster than the people walking. Obviously, this was a function of gearing but put a male cyclist of the same weight and fitness on a similarly geared bike, and he would have had no problem with that hill.
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I know a 45 year old lady up in State College PA that climbs like a billygoat. She's around 5'7 and 125, and I don't know many men (myself included) that can keep up with her on the steep stuff. Climbs that I do in a 39x27, she usually does them in a 39x21, and at around 10 rpm faster cadence.
Definitely exceptions.
Definitely exceptions.
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Originally Posted by BillyD
Hate to shoot down your theory, Sin, but I know two maybe three girls who are at least as good a climber as me, my GF and two of her biking buddies.
My GF can stay with me on my best days, and on my lazy days she has no mercy. I can live with it because on HER lazy days I make sure I get her back . . . male ego and all, you know what I mean.
My GF's friend is short, about 5'2". I don't know what she weighs, but she has these huge thighs which exhibit no definition at all. They're just blobs, so to speak. I would put my money on her against any man I know. She will kick my @$$ on any hill, and yours too, any day of your choosing.
I had heard that she lives on this tough hill so anytime she bikes she has to finish up on this hill. Just this past winter for the first time I went to a party at this friend's house and I finally got to experience this hill . . . in a car! Now I know why she's such a strong climber. F'ggetaboudit!!! I would move!!
My GF can stay with me on my best days, and on my lazy days she has no mercy. I can live with it because on HER lazy days I make sure I get her back . . . male ego and all, you know what I mean.
My GF's friend is short, about 5'2". I don't know what she weighs, but she has these huge thighs which exhibit no definition at all. They're just blobs, so to speak. I would put my money on her against any man I know. She will kick my @$$ on any hill, and yours too, any day of your choosing.
I had heard that she lives on this tough hill so anytime she bikes she has to finish up on this hill. Just this past winter for the first time I went to a party at this friend's house and I finally got to experience this hill . . . in a car! Now I know why she's such a strong climber. F'ggetaboudit!!! I would move!!
she has these huge thighs which exhibit no definition at all. They're just blobs, so to speak
How come their legs don't get all cut and defined like, say, Jan Ullrich's or a dancer's legs?
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Most of the triathalon-type rides (male and female)around here seem to avoid hills. You'll see them on the popular roads that don't have long, extended or steep climbs, but once you get into the hills (mountains in our next of the woods), the triathlete types (at least those with tri-bars) are nowhere to be seen. So, perhaps, it's more a matter of lack of training on hills that causes them to get dropped.
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I did notice the lack of muscle definition, and the pain tolerance (this girl in tri training...tried to do our ride on a mountain bike...man was she a trooper)....but I have never noticed them being bad climbers...but there's not any real hills here, but even on the "bumps" they do very well.
I noticed I have to rip on the cranks to go up those bumps as easily as they do....but I'm 220lbs, and they are about half my weight.
The other thing I noticed is they are great sprinters, but I have never seen any females accelrate as violently as the male riders during these sprints, who tend to accelerate like bats out of hell (myself included)....just an observation.
I noticed I have to rip on the cranks to go up those bumps as easily as they do....but I'm 220lbs, and they are about half my weight.
The other thing I noticed is they are great sprinters, but I have never seen any females accelrate as violently as the male riders during these sprints, who tend to accelerate like bats out of hell (myself included)....just an observation.
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Isn't the geometry of a tri-bike different from a standard road bike? A friend bought one and never felt right on the bike, and later learned "hey - it's a tri bike", and the design is different so that it taxes a different muscle set - or the same muscles in different ways - so that the bike ride, the run, and the swim aren't all demanding effort from the same components.
If the geometry is different, that's probably got to play out in things like climbing. Any tri-bike owners with an insight?
If the geometry is different, that's probably got to play out in things like climbing. Any tri-bike owners with an insight?
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Originally Posted by Sincitycycler
That's another thing I have noticed with some women cyclists: stumpy, squatty pins.
How come their legs don't get all cut and defined like, say, Jan Ullrich's or a dancer's legs?
How come their legs don't get all cut and defined like, say, Jan Ullrich's or a dancer's legs?
Here are some reference values for percent body fat in women (from my coach's data sheets...he's a physician too)
Essential: 11-14%
Athlete: 12-22%
Average: 16-25%
Overweight: 26-41%
Obese: over 31%
I don't have the sheet for men in front of me, but from what I remember, the corresponding values are much lower. One exception I think may be competitive female bodybuilders. They do get a fair amount of definition, but their body fat percentages are also extremely low. In fact, I know one who said when she was in competition, her body fat got down to 8%!!! These kind of numbers are not healthy for women. So I don't think for the most part they will ever show the definition that men do. I'm glad about that - I wouldn't want to have legs that looked like Boonen's!!! Although I wouldn't mind having even half his power output.
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My li'l sis is 44 years old weighs 100 lbs soaking wet runs marathons and can smoke the OP on any hill - I guarantee it. Her legs are ripped. I just think the OP is hangin' with poser biker babes.
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5. The legs are relatively stronger than the arms in women, for the reason that the amount of exertion by the legs is more nearly equal in the two sexes than in the case of the arms. The greater strength of the thigh flexors is, perhaps, due to the fact that the bones of the legs are, in women, shorter than in men, so that the muscles acting upon the thigh have a better leverage than in men. The same reason will hold good for the thigh abductors and adductors, which are relatively the strongest muscles possessed by the average woman. The greater width of hips perhaps affords another anatomical advantage to the muscles of the thigh in women.
5. The legs are relatively stronger than the arms in women, for the reason that the amount of exertion by the legs is more nearly equal in the two sexes than in the case of the arms. The greater strength of the thigh flexors is, perhaps, due to the fact that the bones of the legs are, in women, shorter than in men, so that the muscles acting upon the thigh have a better leverage than in men. The same reason will hold good for the thigh abductors and adductors, which are relatively the strongest muscles possessed by the average woman. The greater width of hips perhaps affords another anatomical advantage to the muscles of the thigh in women.
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I tend to agree with the OP. We had (men's collegiate B's) a race two weekends back, a hilly circuit, 2.75 miles in length. The women As started 2 minutes behind us. One 10% 500m climb, and another that length that starts at 10% then hits 15% at the top. We caught them 5 laps into our 9 lap race and blew past them like they were standing still. These girls were, for the most part, 1-2-3 girls. The race leader was a bit up the road, but we caught her the next lap. She races for one of the smaller Cat1-2 teams, but she just couldn't put it down like the fellas. Mind you, there are a couple of ladies who can ROLL with us on the flats, but they get spanked on the climbs.
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Originally Posted by mollusk
Jeannie Golay used to ride around here in Gainesville back in the 1980's. She was pretty good at all types of road riding.
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I think one issue might be that women are only a small percentage of the riding population, and there aren't as many super competitive women as there are men. I rode the Mulholland Challenge today, and there were some good climbing women there, including Dorothy Wong, a road, cyclocross and singlespeed racer. She chatted with me for a few miles, but vanished as soon as the climbing started. She stayed with the faster guys throughout the ride, or at least I heard. I know some other women who are great climbers, including 1 who is over 50 and kicks butt on double centuries. Don't forget Seana Hogan, who I think still hold the record for S.F. to L.A. for either gender.
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I've seen women of all differing body types and no consistency as far as what body type equates to what performance. Some kick my butt no matter the day. I have noticed one consistency though, you can always tell when women reach their anaerobic threshold. They stop talking.
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You know what I've noticed?
Men have the funniest tendancy to make broad sex based generalizations...
How many threads have I seen here that read "what to do when a WOMAN (passes you, is faster than you, ignores you etc etc)...
What the hell difference does it make that its a woman?
Ever noticed Asian rodies tend to wear bright colored gear or black roadies tend to have diamond grills? White rodies tend to wear stupid pro team kits?
Men have the funniest tendancy to make broad sex based generalizations...
How many threads have I seen here that read "what to do when a WOMAN (passes you, is faster than you, ignores you etc etc)...
What the hell difference does it make that its a woman?
Ever noticed Asian rodies tend to wear bright colored gear or black roadies tend to have diamond grills? White rodies tend to wear stupid pro team kits?
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