cmcenroe

Today I caught a big pack of 50 or so Alto Velo guys and rode up a local hill with them. One of the guys got irritated with me and said something like "Dude, hold your line!" Regardless of the fact that he was basically a jerk, he was correct. Of course common courtesy would dictate that if you have a problem with someone you would either aim to help them out or just ignore it, but regardless, I know he was right. I just figured that people don't really have to pick a perfect line, particularly not on a hill and especially when you have no intention of having someone ride your wheel.

I just want to get better at this stuff (this is my second season) and I want some advice on how to ride a better line.

Thanks!

BTW, in regards to that previous post about Alto Velo: I mentioned that my experience with their riders had been a negative one. Those incidents all took place with solo riders who were unfriendly (but very careful to distribute dirty looks). This time I had a much broader sampling, and I still hold my view. Not only were they seemingly offended that I offered a smile and a wave as I passed them or was passed by them, but they weren't even being social with one another. None of them were chatting, they just seemed too busy with their "training" to enjoy the bike. Funny thing was that I could pace them, and I am no racer by any means (I can't even hold a line). I don't really know what to make of this kind of thing, it is just that I am thinking I may begin to develop a complex from all these riders who give dirty looks and refuse to say hello

Thanks for your help, and sorry for the long post!

Colin

operator

Well dude, if you're just riding along and decide to join a pack without asking, you better know how to do your stuff.

If you want to get better, work on upper body strength, ride rollers, practice trackstands.

ditch digger

want better pack handling skills? ride with a group more, and pay attention to how the others are riding.

The Octopus 

It takes practice, especially on hills. Basically, just concentrate on what you're doing. Quiet your upper body down (lots of riders, even some very fast ones, sway their torsos like they're at a revival -- not good). Focus more on gear selection when climbing. Bad gear selections -- both too high and too low -- will make for a more erratic line. Perhaps most importantly, look ahead of you and well down (or up, if climbing!) the road. Don't look at your wheel. Don't look at the guy on your right. Don't look to watch a car pass. Your bike will go where your head is pointed. Even for very experienced riders, this reality is very difficult to overcome.

I can't comment on the sociability of these guys, or whether they're jackasses, or whatnot, but I can offer that in my neck of the woods, team "training" rides tend to be fast and, once the group is warmed up, conversation is pretty much over because of the quality of the workout. Some people enjoy this kind of riding -- it's fast (especially if you're pacelining with a strong group), it's aggressive, and you get a great workout. Others think it's entirely pointless. You're missing the scenery, it can be dangerous, and it's not particularly social. No right or wrong answers on this one, folks....

Sounds like you're enjoying your time on the bike, which is the most important thing.... Keep at it!

Cyclist01012

Want to ride a better line? Buy a set of rollers spend a winter on them. Master riding them, then ride them no handed. practice drinking and eating no handed while riding rollers. Then move onto having a friend ride a set of rollers facing you and play picth and catch with a handball ball. Then when spring hits ride the edge lines on roads. Then find a good group of people and ride with them. The key to paceline riding is practice.

cmcenroe

Well dude, I just happened to be coming down the road one way and they happened to be coming down the other way, and they made a left turn into the climb right after I made the right turn into the climb. I have never needed to ask a group of people who don't own the road whether or not I can ride on it anywhere near them. This is a heavily frequented route, and I am not going to just slow down and let all of them pass me because they are somehow more entitled than I am. I will remember that next time I want to ride my bike to check and see if there are any group rides scheduled anywhere within a 5 mile radius of where I plan to go and ask the corresponding God Of The Bicycle Team On My Route whether I can join the massive pack that stretches out over a quarter mile of the climb. I still hold my ground, I am not wearing an Alto Velo jersey, I am not sucking anyone's wheel, just riding my bike up the same hill at the same time as them. No one asked me whether they could ride my tail, which seems to be the proper thing to do given that I don't visibly associate with Alto Velo. It isn't like there weren't 70 other guys to choose from that were actually a part of the team.

And thanks for your advice too.

daytonian

Rollers and riding in groups more often. Did rollers alot this Winter and they really helped.

cmcenroe

What is an acceptable amount of movement on the road?

roadfix

When I first started riding in large packs, I never received verbal comments about my riding style, but I used to get a few gentle shoves or taps behind my back basically warning me to hold my line.

UmneyDurak

Rollers is a good way to work on your handling skills. Also relax your upper body a bit. Which climb are you talking about? On the turn to la honda (the one climbing away from Palo Alto) some rider almost took out two people. He ended up locking his wheel and ended up in a ditch. I don't think he was even wearing a helmet. I'm not saying it was you, just that there are truely dangerious riders out there. Ther was also some crazy motorists blasting down lahonda screamming something, and laying on a horn.
They didn't wave back, so what? It's not the end of the world. In my experience most riders don't wave back, regardless of the club.
There is plenty of chatting going on. I ride with them, and I like it. I don't belong to the club, thought.
P.S. I was on silver cannondale in blue Primal Jersery with a Griffen, or yellow jacket depending on a climb.

bigskymacadam

wow. i've got to try this. awesome.

daytonian

I got to the point this Winter were I could come out of the saddle and do full bore sprint, no easy task as rocking bike forward will throw it off the front of rollers and sideways well we know what happens there. Next year I wanna learn how to bunny hop up on them and start riding.

cmcenroe

Yes I passed you going turning right up top on skyline. You later passed me as I was trying to be careful in the wet on the descent towards woodside road. In fact, I said hello to you as I passed you, and you looked at me and kept riding. I was on a red and white Trek 2100 with a white Sugoi jersey with black leg and arm warmers on and a red, white, and blue trek helmet. When I passed you I had my arm warmers down, and when you passed me I had my arm warmers up. I was not wearing a helmet on the climb. I was stopped on a side road when the group rode by at the base of the climb, and I jumped in after I secured my helmet to my bars. I wore no helmet on the way up, but I definitely did not crash or cause any havoc. I did see some cars coming down at the very beginning of the climb but did not hear any screaming or horns.

I'm sorry if I confused you with someone else!

cmcenroe

Oh, and it wasn't me waving to riders on the climb, it was me riding up alongside them and saying hello, which I didn't realize was a problem. Just making conversation...

terrymorse 

If you're in a pack, just ride as straight as possible and be predictable. Nothing's more annoying on a group ride than someone who rides unpredictably.

If you want to practice pack riding skills, come out for the Alto Velo B ride on Saturday morning. Everyone's welcome.

FormerBMX'er

Glad I grew up BMX racing, bike handling skills galore .

cmcenroe

I BMX'ed for about 2 years when I was in elementary school

FormerBMX'er

I did my group ride today and one guy kept tapping his brakes going downhill. I think he was nervous about the speed (less than 30) and was losing contact with front pack. First chance I got to hammer by him I took.

FormerBMX'er

If you were into stunts or racing then you should have no problem holding a line, did you just tool around the neighborhood?

krazyderek

rollers rollers rollers rollers rollers rollers rollers, nothing like the fear of falling over, or riding into your tv to help you concentrate on staying in the middle of the rollers.

Seriously though, i spent 2 or 3 months on mine this winter and they really helped with my balance and my line.

UmneyDurak

Oh yeah, I remember someone passing me on skyline ascent, and me passing them back on descent. I think he said something while he was behind me, I turned around and I thought I said Hello back. Anyway my bad, I usually reply.

cmcenroe

No, I actually raced for the ABA. I was pretty young and uncoordinated at the time (4th and 5th grade) but I had a lot of fun and started getting good right before I quit. I quit just because they closed down the track.

cmcenroe

I don't know, maybe I am just too softspoken or something.

Anyway, no hard feelings at all, I won't hold it against an individual or anything, I just get frustrated at the collective.

operator

If you don't want comments, don't post your schpiel on a public forum, say it to yourself in front of the mirror. Yes you're right, you have absolutely no obligation to share the road with other cyclists. But (and you didn't mention this in your original post) if people start drafting you without at least making their presence known then obviously you have the right of way and can do whatever the crap you want.

Of course by the same token, you have an obligation not to swerve around like a maniac and brake test people for fun. Where you draw the line on that, I think is common sense.

Your very first line,

Either include all the facts in your post or don't get offended when someone replies based exactly on what you wrote. It sure sounds like to me in this statement that YOU caught up with them, not the other way around. You can't blame me for misreading your post, because that is all you said Is that alright?

flipflop

Stuff I do:

Ride on the paint stripes by the shoulder if there are any. Don't look down at your wheel, look ahead as far as you can. Then start spinning up hills on the stripe. Next climbing out of the saddle... and finally full bore sprints. Then start picking which side of the stripe your going to ride. (Don't do this when its wet...)

Pick a point on the horizon and stay equidistant to the edge of the road/stripe.

Dodge lose bits of gravel, pick a side and zing it out from under you front tire... pick your side as soon as you see it. Then start looking a few more bits ahead and play connect the dots.

Follow a line on the road, see where your going to go before you are there... and pick reference marks.

I havent tried rollers, but those don't cost anything.