Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 48
  1. #1
    Senior Member Sincitycycler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    "Gosh honey, you pass more like Tony Rominger..."
    My Bikes
    2005 Scott CR1 Pro - 1992 Panasonix Fixed Conversion 60tx20t
    Posts
    3,219
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    American Classic magnesium Race wheels: What's the verdict?

    Looking for some ultra light wheels for a 17 mile TT hill-climb in September. Don't really feel like forking out the price of my bike for Zipp carbons...

    Anybody have any experience with these American Classic magnesium wheels? Any flexiness at 1230 grams?


    http://www.amclassic.com/Wheels_Magnesium.html
    Last edited by Sincitycycler; 07-02-06 at 04:18 PM.
    "How did all those 'Keep Off the Grass' signs get there?"

  2. #2
    Senior Member Snicklefritz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    In the middle of horse country, in The Garden State
    Posts
    3,112
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I was at Interbike last fall and visited the American Classic booth where they were featuring these wheels. I got to talk with a couple of people who had ridden on them extensively. Granted, the AC people probably aren't completely unbiased. However, they did seem honest and straightforward about the advantages/disadvantages. PM me if you would like more info.

  3. #3
    RacingBear UmneyDurak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    NorCal
    Posts
    8,008
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Snicklefritz
    I was at Interbike last fall and visited the American Classic booth where they were featuring these wheels. I got to talk with a couple of people who had ridden on them extensively. Granted, the AC people probably aren't completely unbiased. However, they did seem honest and straightforward about the advantages/disadvantages. PM me if you would like more info.
    Just post it here, I'm sure other people would like to know too.
    I see hills.... Bring them on!!!
    Stay calm and bring a towel.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Snicklefritz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    In the middle of horse country, in The Garden State
    Posts
    3,112
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Ok, here's the gist of what I learned at Interbike and through talking with people who own these wheels:

    (1) Yes, you do have to use special brakes pads. The wheels are shipped with the green Kool-stop pads which are used for ceramic rims.

    (2) I spoke with a lady who does a lot of their wheelbuilding. She said the main reason for the "event use" labelling has to do with trueing issues. It's not the kind of wheel that you can ride day in and day out and be a heavier person and expect it to stay true. It won't. If you are small person, <150 lbs this is much less of an issue. I also spoke with a sales rep who rode the wheel 100-150 miles per week for about 3 months. He had to true it once every few weeks, but that was using it far beyond "event only". Other than that he said he did not have a problem with it.

    (3) The wheel builder lady said that these are wheels that you should clean meticulously. That's the second reason why they are labelled "event only". If the roads are wet, have a ton of gunk on them, it can affect the ceramic coating or cause the surface to discolor.

    On #3 if you think about it, there are some frames you can leave out in the rain, treat like crap and they will still run well and be strong as a tank. The AC mags are not like this. You have to take care of them. Clean them after every ride so you don't leave junk on them that will gum them up and wear out the coating prematurely.

    (4) The wheelbuilding lady and salesperson said that they absorb vibration nicely when they road them and made comparisons with more traditional rims. The main advantage is getting this kind of ride quality for a more economical price compared with carbon.



    Based on what I found from talking with people it seems like if you are well under the 170lb weight limit then the trueing is much less of an issue. I'm 5'3" and far less than that so the lady told me she didn't think trueing would be much of an issue at all even if I rode them regularly. Its more of an issue she said when you approach their rider weight limit. I have to think (and this is just my own opinion) that they probably had their lawyers involved with writing the statement. If you say nothing about "event only" and just bill it as a normal wheel, then you may have more people buying it, some well over 170 lbs and who will get frustrated having to true it so often. But if you add the disclaimer "event only" then people are more likely to think twice about how often they use it, saving you try trouble of lots of 170+ lb guys who use it 20 hours per week.

    If I had carbon wheels, I'd only use them for specific events so the tradeoff for me would be price. the AC Mags I think are less expensive than more carbon wheelsets...and I think they have better durability than carbon also.

  5. #5
    Whateverthehell Chucklehead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    U.S.S.A.
    My Bikes
    '06 Blue Competition RC5AL w/ritchey pro fork, spinergy stealth PBO, etc.
    Posts
    7,433
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." - Leonardo daVinci

  6. #6
    Peloton Dog patentcad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Chester, NY
    My Bikes
    2013 Scott Foil, 2009 Scott Addict R2, 2008 Cervelo P3 TT bike, 2008 Motobecane Fly Ti Hard Tail MTB
    Posts
    55,941
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by dog hair

    The Neuvation wheels I've seen scream 'cheesy' in a few respects. Just my impressions. One owner I spoke to seemed to indicate that his Neuvations weren't exactly the most bombproof wheels in the world. The wheels you linked to aren't cheap - $1200 or so. You can get Zipps for what, $1500-$1600? I think they're worth the premium, but that's me.

    You sort of get what you pay for much of the time. My Mavic Ksyrium SL's and ES's weren't cheap, but they're light for bombproof clincher wheels (1500-1600 grams) - and you could drop them off the Empire State Building and they wouldn't need trueing.

    By the way, I know several racing pals with Zipps and they swear by them.

  7. #7
    Whateverthehell Chucklehead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    U.S.S.A.
    My Bikes
    '06 Blue Competition RC5AL w/ritchey pro fork, spinergy stealth PBO, etc.
    Posts
    7,433
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    how dare you...
    "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." - Leonardo daVinci

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Cornhole, Iowa
    Posts
    1,894
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by patentcad
    The Neuvation wheels I've seen scream 'cheesy' in a few respects. Just my impressions. One owner I spoke to seemed to indicate that his Neuvations weren't exactly the most bombproof wheels in the world. The wheels you linked to aren't cheap - $1200 or so. You can get Zipps for what, $1500-$1600? I think they're worth the premium, but that's me.

    You sort of get what you pay for much of the time. My Mavic Ksyrium SL's and ES's weren't cheap, but they're light for bombproof clincher wheels (1500-1600 grams) - and you could drop them off the Empire State Building and they wouldn't need trueing.

    By the way, I know several racing pals with Zipps and they swear by them.
    I've seen Zipps on the web for $1350. Best bet is to get them pro dealed
    Get on a cross bike.... you'll like it ;)

  9. #9
    DocRay
    Guest
    since when are zipps bombproof?
    great way to hit a bump and lose $1500.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Snicklefritz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    In the middle of horse country, in The Garden State
    Posts
    3,112
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by DocRay
    since when are zipps bombproof?
    great way to hit a bump and lose $1500.
    Do they have that much trouble regarding potholes? What's the deal with Zipp/pothole

  11. #11
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    11
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    AC Mags

    I'm 6'2",195 lbs. I race on the Amer Classic mags and because I've gotten lazy, I've been riding them weekly-1200 miles and not one problem. No wobbles,truing issues and no corrsion. What a buy.
    Whammer

  12. #12
    Sick ... again MacMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    1,577
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You're buying a set of high-end wheels for one uphill TT - I hope you're good. The wheels won't make a shyte bit of difference unless you're a pro.

  13. #13
    Climbing Fool terrymorse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Palo Alto, CA
    My Bikes
    Scott Addict R1, Felt Z1
    Posts
    3,019
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MacMan
    You're buying a set of high-end wheels for one uphill TT - I hope you're good. The wheels won't make a shyte bit of difference unless you're a pro.
    Why do people make comments like that? Ignorance, I guess.

    Weight has the same effect on every rider in an uphill TT. Reduce your weight by 1%, and you get nearly a 1% increase in speed. That's true, whether you're a weekend warrior or a Cat 1. Physics.
    Managing Director, Undiscovered Country Tours

  14. #14
    Veni, Vidi, Vomiti SteveE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Republic of Anaerobia
    My Bikes
    Serotta Legend Ti, Romani Columbus SL, Soma Doublecross
    Posts
    3,582
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by terrymorse
    Why do people make comments like that? Ignorance, I guess.

    Weight has the same effect on every rider in an uphill TT. Reduce your weight by 1%, and you get nearly a 1% increase in speed. That's true, whether you're a weekend warrior or a Cat 1. Physics.
    True, but unless you thought it would give you a shot at the podium would you fork over the extra cash?
    "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ...'holy *****...what a ride!'"

  15. #15
    Dirt-riding heretic DrPete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Gig Harbor, WA
    My Bikes
    Lynskey R230/Red, Blue Triad SL/Red, Cannondale Scalpel 3/X9
    Posts
    17,417
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveE
    True, but unless you thought it would give you a shot at the podium would you fork over the extra cash?
    I'm guessing the prize money won't offset the wheel purchase either.

    MacMan's point is pretty valid, though--if you have no excess body fat and can crank out a consistent, high wattage every time you hop on a bike (MacMan's definition of Pro, from what I can gather) then you might feel the advantage of light wheels, but for mere mortals there are so many other bigger factors than a couple hundred grams of rotating weight.

    In most categories of amateur racing and especially 4/5, the primary limiter is the engine. I've gotten dropped by people on crap heavy bikes, and I've outsprinted and outclimbed guys rolling Zipps on my $300 1700g Eastons.
    "Unless he was racing there was no way he could match my speed."

  16. #16
    Dirt-riding heretic DrPete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Gig Harbor, WA
    My Bikes
    Lynskey R230/Red, Blue Triad SL/Red, Cannondale Scalpel 3/X9
    Posts
    17,417
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by WHAMMER
    I'm 6'2",195 lbs. I race on the Amer Classic mags and because I've gotten lazy, I've been riding them weekly-1200 miles and not one problem. No wobbles,truing issues and no corrsion. What a buy.
    Whammer
    My engine specs are about the same as yours, and I don't think I'd ever have the courage to ride ANYTHING that has an advertised 170lb weight limit. I know there's some wiggle room, but racing? May God (or your all-powerful wheel preserver of your choice) ride with you.
    "Unless he was racing there was no way he could match my speed."

  17. #17
    By-Tor...or the Snow Dog? hi565's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ma
    My Bikes
    Bianchi Cross Concept, Flyte Srs-3
    Posts
    6,481
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by terrymorse
    Why do people make comments like that? Ignorance, I guess.

    Weight has the same effect on every rider in an uphill TT. Reduce your weight by 1%, and you get nearly a 1% increase in speed. That's true, whether you're a weekend warrior or a Cat 1. Physics.
    TerryMorse...Can I be you?
    ----------------------------------------------------------

  18. #18
    By-Tor...or the Snow Dog? hi565's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ma
    My Bikes
    Bianchi Cross Concept, Flyte Srs-3
    Posts
    6,481
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I dont know if people know this, but magnesium is a very very hard material to deal with. Main reason...It is highly highly highly flammable.

    I was talking to the INDY-fab guys when I went to the facctory and he told me the only problem with them making a mag frame is the fact that it is very flammable. Obvioucly welding it would be very hard, almost impossible. (im pretty sure thats what he said as far as the welding goes)

    So really, I dont think I want something thats very flammable spinning very quickly under me.
    ----------------------------------------------------------

  19. #19
    Veni, Vidi, Vomiti SteveE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Republic of Anaerobia
    My Bikes
    Serotta Legend Ti, Romani Columbus SL, Soma Doublecross
    Posts
    3,582
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by DrPete
    I'm guessing the prize money won't offset the wheel purchase either.
    I don't think many of us on the forums are racing for the money. But I would guess there a few riders out there who would drop some cash just to get a win.
    "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ...'holy *****...what a ride!'"

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    5,426
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by terrymorse
    Why do people make comments like that? Ignorance, I guess.

    Weight has the same effect on every rider in an uphill TT. Reduce your weight by 1%, and you get nearly a 1% increase in speed. That's true, whether you're a weekend warrior or a Cat 1. Physics.
    Not an ignorant statement at all, he's completely right.

    First, whats important is the combined weight of the bike and rider. There is no way you are going to get anywhere near 1% reduction in combined weight with a light set of wheels, absolutely impossible. And, unless the person is absolutely at his leanest, he can easily shed 10 times the weight savings of expensive wheels in body weight in preparing for an event. Physics and physiology.

    Second, there are so many variables in a race that completely dwarf the infinitesmally tiny weight reduction advantage that light wheels give you. Get the wrong gear for 10 seconds, catch a gust of wind that someone else doesn't, and thats it, you blew any weight savings advantage from expensive wheels.

    So advising the OP not to waste money on bling wheels is very good advice.
    Il faut de l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours de l'audace

    1980 3Rensho-- 1975 Raleigh Sprite 3spd
    1990s Raleigh M20 MTB--2007 Windsor Hour (track)
    1988 Ducati 750 F1

  21. #21
    . bbattle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Huntsville, Alabama
    My Bikes
    2014 Trek Domane 5.2, 1985 Pinarello Trevisio, 1991 Colnago Master, '06 Bianchi San Jose, 1987 Moulton Fuso, '80's Gardin Shred?, '82 John Howard(Dave Tesch)
    Posts
    11,545
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by hi565
    I dont know if people know this, but magnesium is a very very hard material to deal with. Main reason...It is highly highly highly flammable.

    I was talking to the INDY-fab guys when I went to the facctory and he told me the only problem with them making a mag frame is the fact that it is very flammable. Obvioucly welding it would be very hard, almost impossible. (im pretty sure thats what he said as far as the welding goes)

    So really, I dont think I want something thats very flammable spinning very quickly under me.

    It's a magnesium alloy, and like the old NeXT magnesium computer cases, you'd have to put a LOT of heat to them to get them to do anything. Pure magnesium would oxidize and turn to dust very quickly.

  22. #22
    By-Tor...or the Snow Dog? hi565's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ma
    My Bikes
    Bianchi Cross Concept, Flyte Srs-3
    Posts
    6,481
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by bbattle
    It's a magnesium alloy, and like the old NeXT magnesium computer cases, you'd have to put a LOT of heat to them to get them to do anything. Pure magnesium would oxidize and turn to dust very quickly.
    Yes that is true also.
    ----------------------------------------------------------

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Kalifornia
    My Bikes
    '07 Excalibur, '08 Anthem 1, and some others
    Posts
    287
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by hi565
    So really, I dont think I want something thats very flammable spinning very quickly under me.
    MTB forks have been using Mg in the lowers for years and I've never heard of any going up in flames. It's actually fairly difficult to light (try doing it with a match sometime.) It is, however, extremely reactive (like Al) and a challenge to weld.

  24. #24
    Sick ... again MacMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    1,577
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by terrymorse
    Why do people make comments like that? Ignorance, I guess.

    Weight has the same effect on every rider in an uphill TT. Reduce your weight by 1%, and you get nearly a 1% increase in speed. That's true, whether you're a weekend warrior or a Cat 1. Physics.
    Please. The difference it makes at our level is innefectual.

  25. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    57
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    AC wheels

    I'm 6'2",203 lbs and I race on them-not one problem. I understand that in Novenber,AC will come out with a tubular version. They feel like being on air to some degree. I know at least a dozen others who run them including a few pros. All seem to like.
    Whammer

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •