Smoothie104

Is kinda hard to narrow down, But I'll start with Dr. Bob


It's not the Mirror, or the Bell V-1 Pro its attached to, nor the monster sized seat bag thats mounted wrong, I'ts not even the knee high gray socks...It's his bike skills that seal the deal. He can't ride a straight line, he can't ride a steady pace. Brake, Swerve, Brake, Swerve etc, and thats when he's not letting gaps open etc.. Many of us would rather ride in the wind all day than have to ride his wheel. He is a very nice guy, just a liability to others around him when he's on his bike.

There's a well known route here in town, ridden by the group every wednesday, and pretty much every sunday as well, plus when any of us feel like getting some miles in, this is the way we go, its west, and since the ocean is east, well you get the idea. It follows a couple of back roads, and in one section there are 2 ridges, about 30 seconds apart. They run the width of the road, couple of inches high, rounded on both ends..... No big deal, but if you hit it no handed or while not paying attention it can be an eye opener of sorts.

Everyone knows they are there, but we yell out "watch the bump" etc..everytime, just to be safe.

Well one Sunday in the off season, while LEADING THE GROUP at about 18mph Dr. Bob says "Watch the Bump!" and then goes ass over socks in the middle of the road.....BAM!! Just stacked it up right in front of everyone..hahahaaaaa! No one even knows how the hell it happened, but it did...He took out a couple of other people as well.

Everyone stops to asses the damage, eveyones bikes are ok, A couple bumps and Bruises, a couple of us are trying no to laugh at the absurdity of calling out "bump" and then proceeding to stack it up on said bump etc..... but the Dr. is down, and not getting up, he says he's hurt pretty bad. He looks fine, but you never know... A call for an ambulance is suggested, he declines and says give him a minute. 15 minutes later he says, ok call the paramedics. As the call is being made, he says "no, no I'm fine" so we hang up and wait another 15 minutes, and everyone is looking at the time etc.. but we are not going to leave him there.

And then he says "yeah, call the ambulance" So we call the meds, they show up about 15 minutes later. Now as soon as they show up, I'm ready to roll out, I mean its Sunday, a lot of guys have to get back, have families etc.. were already about 40 minutes behind schedule. But someone says wait, and we do, another 15 minutes while the paramedics talk to Bob etc.. Guess what, they left, Bob said he was fine and said he didn't need them after all. So over 1 hour after he crashes, we roll out, but Guess what? Bob wants to ride home and asks the group if they will ride back with him?!?!? Thank god a couple of people said yes, and that was enough. The rest of us got our miles in.

Flash Forward about 4 Years, were doing laps around the Army Base here on a thursday night....a 10 mile loop, several bikers/triathletes out there all riding thier own program, both directions of the loop etc.

It's me, Paulie the Fixer, Grandpa Big Ring, CD, and Russ Williams. Rolling along at 22 or so, just getting in some miles Up ahead I see a Blue Jersey, and as we get closer lo and behold.. It's Dr. Bob We are gaining pretty quickly as its a slight downhill on the backside of the loop. Paulie whispers to me "hahaha!!! pick it up, so he can't get on" So I throw another couple of cogs on the fire, spin it up, pass the Good Dr. with a wave and a hello and we roll on bye, we were past him before he could catch the draft.

Well about 6 miles or so later, We see him again, up in the distance, this time coming towards us. He turned around to catch up to us. Again I raise the pace, And here is where the Fred rears its Head.. Upon seeing us he should have done an immediate U turn, and match our speed as we catch up to him. But no... He proceeds to wait until we are basically right on top of him, then starts to make his U turn, using the entire road, and almost causing a crash. Needless to say, he missed the tail end of the group again.

We're on the backside of the loop again, and yeah, you guessed it, Bob is back, this time he has a plan, he is waiting for us, on the correct side of the road, at the top of the slight downhill. He has position and gravity on his side. but it isn't going to be enough. Even the old man has a twinkle in his eye as we start ramping it up for another pass. No one has to say anything, everyone knows what is happening. 32mph this time, just drilling it.

As Russ pulls through he gasps "man, you guys must really hate that guy in the blue"

But you know we don't, we just didnt want to ride with him that day, and while some may say he is infamous etc.. I have to admit, I smile when I think about Dr. Bob For some reason, he is my favorite Fred.

Lets here about the Freds in your group...

patentcad

Smoothie, you have nailed the essentials of true Fredosity. I have stated it before and I'll say it again: Fred is MUCH more a lack of ability to ride safely at speed/in a group than about how fast or slow any one rider may be. And all its accoutrements: helmet mirrors, over-dressing in cold weather, etc. - become warning signs to those of us who have been doing this for a while and prefer to not crash, get gapped/dropped, etc.

Much of that mentality boils down to this: most real Freds don't ride as much as cyclists who are more involved in the sport or racing, and that tends to make them less confident/experienced/competent in fast groups. And that can be quite dangerous at times. Not often, but when it does happen it's spooky ****. And that doesn't mean I eschew, dislike, disdain, hate or loathe them in any way. I try my best to be encouraging to cyclists on any level. Today's Fred may be the guy dropping me tomorrow or my team mate if I'm racing.

But do I want to RIDE with a guy who screams CAR UPPPP!!!!!! on a wide open flat road with 1+ mile of visibility, scaring the living crap out of me to alert me to a vehicle that everyone in the paceline will see a minute before it's anywhere near us? Ummm.. not always. And these dudes will be the first to come on this forum and tell me how stupid I am for not wearing a helmet mirror or for riding with an iPod - and I'm listening to this after 20 years and 100k miles on the road without a major accident or injury. It's so tired and silly that I can't bring myself to type a response much of the time. And when I scan the threads here, a large percentage of them reek of that Fredosity. So I don't bother. Does that make me an 'elitist'? Whatever. But there are enough members here who seem to know the score to make it worthwhile. And that makes the static bearable.

But I DO get a kick out of these guys when they show up for a group ride in February in snowmobile suits. That's always fun : ). The reality is that the vast majority of the cycling enthusiasts and/or members here might fall into the 'Fred' category to some degree. So any attempt to discuss that will be viewed as extreme Road Nazism. But that's OK. The only way Freds get de-Fred-ified is by hearing this stuff and changing some of their riding habits. I've seen Freds morph into smooth riders time and again. It's a natural evolution. You don't gain experience as a roadie without going through this stuff. It does take time. And miles.

Not everyone rides as much as the super-weenies here. They HAVE other interests in life. I'll let you know when that happens for me.

jtree

why not just tell the guy "hey you need to improve your group riding skills. until then you're not riding in our group because it's too dangerous."

Vinokurtov

Because a true Fred would think you're joking.

How about the Hammerfreds who jump their $1k wheelsets over curbs and ride through dirt in the group "rides" so they don't get dropped? Or take out innocent pedestrians or old men out for their Sunday flat bar putt?

My personal favorites are the Walkafreds who let their dogs loose on bike paths littered with "This is a bike path dogs must be on a leash" signs.

patentcad

But the only way riding skills improve is by exposure to faster/better riders. Ultimately is there some risk with Freds? Perhaps. I accept that as an essential part of the cycling deal- helping less experienced riders learn their chops. As any experienced rider knows, when the heat really gets turned up, many of them get shown the rear exits anyway. Not too many spooky Freds are still there when the paceline hits 30+ mph. And the ones that are seem to be more competent. It's kind of hard to hang on a ballistic ride if you're that clueless.

Don't worry, if any rider is that dangerous, they'll certainly be hearing from the other guys on the ride.

Smoothie104

We went by too fast to say anything....


And we do ride with him some days in the group, but that particular day we were 5 strong riders, doing our own thing. By making the pace impossible for him, it saved us the awkwardness, and him the possible embarrasement of such a conversation. Besides, he was out on his own when we saw him, we didnt plan to ride with him. If and when he gets to the point where he could match the pace, he would probably be a smoother safer rider by then as well.

botto 

I more or less agree with you, but at the same time i'd find it difficult to call the squirrely guy in my group a fred.

he may be all over the place, and has almost taken all of us down at one point or the other, including himself, but i just don't have the heart to call him a fred.

not even behind his back.

substructure

I think Fred’s will never realize just what they do when they do it.
I’ve had my Fred moments. But I’ve learned from them and put them in my “Do Not Do” rolodex.

edit: Good story Smoothie.

merlinextraligh

Interesting article in Bicycling this month about a new rider that was fast enough to hang, but no bike skills whatsoever, and was a menace to himself and others. The article was about a full blown effort to improve his skills. Some of the stuff they did for him would help Dr Bob. Perhaps you could give him a copy of the article.

botto 

the one about the short fat guy who became a pretty strong short guy over a couple of seasons, but managed to break his collar bone, neck, arm, etc because he was so squirrely?

sverrefehn

lollol. "Ass over socks" - I about fell out of my chair. I could see it coming and it still busted me up. Hilarious, although I then felt bad that he might have been really hurt. Very glad to read otherwise. I've been pretty lucky in that our group and team rides have not been subject to that level of Fred-ness. We have plenty of new guys come out, but in general they do really well and are very responsive to constructive criticism. I am grateful for this group of guys to ride with because I was the new guy not long ago.
I recently trained some friends of mine in preparation for a century and it was a little crazy at first with the unannounced swerving and the backwards drifting on hills, etc. I just kept my distance to avoid any mishaps. One of them asked me why I always wanted to be on the front of the paceline. He knew the answer already and was not offended. Eventually they came around. I still leave a bigger gap than usual, though

Doggus

...and we're tired of hearing about your 20 years and 100k miles. Go get yerself a medal and be done with it. There's plenty out there with more mileage who we never hear about. Hell...we got a guy in our group who had a major heart attack 3 years ago, and is now the top distance rider in the area...and we never hear a peep out of him about it.

DrPete 

This post reminded me of my brief brush with extreme fredosity just this past weekend.

Organized ride in Virginia. My fiancee, a complete noob, is taking on her longest ride ever, a half century. I'm kinda taking it easy and making a recovery day out of it. On one descent, I gap the soon-to-be-Mrs. and move all the way left in the road to let her catch up.

Up from behind comes a guy I saw at the rest stop and honestly thought "Fred." Mirror, neon yellow jersey, white calf-length socks scrunched down, reflector belt, $20 helmet, those sports glasses that stay on with an elastic band (like the basketball players wear), trunk rack with massive trunk pack--quite impressive. I figured I'll just stay where I am. Not a car in sight.

I hear the Fred yell "on your left." Huh? I'm all the way left and there's a whole lane in front of me. I'm still soft pedaling waiting for Mollie. I wave him by with my right hand and hold my line all the way left.
I hear another, more urgent, "On your left!" and this Fred passes me, sure enough, on the left, riding right on the centerline and coming within an inch of hitting me. Literally. ON A WIDE OPEN ROAD.

So, to everyone out there who doesn't know, when you're riding in a group and someone moves to the left, that means "go ahead." This Fred clearly believed that the ONLY place to pass a cyclist was on the left, and that the center line is NEVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, to be crossed, because he felt the need to endanger both of our safety to pass me on the left and not cross the line.

A fred move regardless of the bike and outfit, but he had the full package. He had the equipment AND the skills.

55/Rad

On the topic of our favorite Freds, below are 2 famous Freds from days gone by. Any idea who they are? One should be easy and the other might surprise you. Both are Freds.

55/Frad

bbattle

Better yet, why not a couple of you guys take the time to actually teach him how to ride in a group.

I ride alone and even though I know when the local group rides roll, I'm hesitant to join them because I don't know if I'm good enough and I don't want to just draft off the back of the group.


I understand there are people you just can't reach or they just don't get it but maybe if somebody gave Dr. Fred some pointers, everybody might benefit.

bbattle

Hey, Doggus, it's all good. In fact, this Balvenie Doublewood is DAMN good.

BTW, I've been riding for 12 months and 1700+ miles.

Mariner Fan

Great story Smoothie. Man, that was funny.

LA_Rider

Try to understand my reality for a moment...

I’m rolling down PCH in a 30 man, single file paceline at 26-30 mph, there’s cliff 5’ to my right, and 60 mph traffic blowing by 3’ to my left - pissed off that we caused them to slow down from 80 mph.

I’ve suddenly discovered the guy 3” off my of my front wheel is some Fred who thought he could sit in. Fred has no business being there, and is putting me, and everyone else in danger.

Now I’m a nice helpful guy, but at that single moment, all I can think of is how do I get past this Farking Icehole without getting rear-ended by an RV.

There’s a time and place for everything, and there’s nothing wrong with riding in the back until you’re ready to move up.

PS: Great story Smoothie.

domestique

Yea, "Project Jeremy". I couldn't believe how different he looked.... but I also couldn't believe how parts of his body he broke!

Edit: I have always felt a "Fred" was a rich snoob that had too much money and not enough class or experience to back his 5,000+ bike up.

There was a good article in Mountain Bike Quarterly October 2004 called "I'm Not Fred" by Dan Keoppel and basically sums up a Fred as:

1. A fred has to stay half a wheel in front of everyone
2. throws a fit if someone is 30 seconds late for a group ride
3. never says hello or nods
4. hates getting his shoes wet

etc. basically someone who has the high end kit but doesn't have the etiquette or ability

LA_Rider

Doh! I'm 1/4 Fred.

Smoothie104

HAHAAAA< I wish you had a picture!

cyclebutt

Fred McMurray from (my three sons) and don't know the other guy.

cyclebutt

ooh is it Fredrick March?

DrPete 

Me too. There are freds, but this guy seriously looked like a cartoon.

I have you to blame for some of this, you know... You helped give me advice and wisdom to get into racing, and with that single season of experience has come a greatly increased disdain for all things fred.

On the plus side, I've started spending less money on my bike, so I guess you come out even.

55/Rad

Hint - he's a "Fred" who later appeared regularly with him in "My Three Sons"