dgasmd

First of, let me thank you all for the great responses, even the un-called for sarcastic non-contributory ones

Yes, I have been out of cycling for a long time and things have certainly changed as they have in many other aspects of life. I mean, 12 years ago, cell phones were a commodity not seen commonly and those big car installed phones were prefered to the hand held units due to better reception. Remember? Now, they are like an appendage or primary organ to most and are the size of a thumb. So, yes, I guess cycling has changed quite a bit too.

Back in those days, to mention anything made in Taiwan was equivalent to something extremly cheaply made in every sense of the word and with very bad quality not to mention the poor longevity going with it. Still is for a lot of things. I can't speak for their bike building ability now as I asked the question obviously out of ignorance. However, it does seem extremely weird to me to pay $3-4K for some state of the art time and wind cheating machine of an Italian company but made completely in the other side of the word by people that have never been involved in professional cycling. Recreational and as a form of transportation? YES, but not the same!! Maybe they are great manufacturers despite the lack of enthusiasm or involvement in cycling. I think my main conflict remains that back in the 80's and 90's one was paying very high prices for a "name bike" because we knew there was a guy sitting in the same company that made these bikes by hand as a form of art. Sort of what was mentioned about hand made (assembled) cars.

Maybe this is a lot to get used to. I do like steel bikes too. Irony is that I just bought a Taiwan made steel bike today by an Italian brand (Bianchi), which is what got me started on the questions. I have personally never been a huge fan of AL for some reason unknown to me, but I must admit some of the aero AL frames out there are extremely appealing if anything for the looks.

I guess I will be spending the next several months looking on ebay and other places for some used 80's and 90's Colnagos, Ciocc, Cinelli, Basso, Pinarello, De Rosa, Olmo, Bottechia, Moser, etc. Still can't get enough of the old school stuff

STW

Ritterview,

I'm not sure where you were going with your post, but your bike is an excellent example of a wonderful bike that comes from Taiwan. It is not "cookie cutter" by any means and the extensive R&D and technology poured into this machine that I highly doubt could have been executed by a small boutique manufacturer.

To the OP - If you don't like paying for technology, take some welding classes.

Jared88

That is a fair point , and it may be true too. But i am sure that frame builders like Ernesto Colnago would have done everything to ensure that the quality of the bikes coming out of Taiwan would be the same as those from italy. And if a man like Ernesto trusts those bikes and how they are made , then i would too. So they have every right to charge the bikes from Taiwan the same price as those from italy. The fact is that the OP is plain saying that bikes from Taiwan are crap , no matter the brand. If he is saying all that bull***** because he had a bad experience with Taiwan bikes then it is understandable , but to say bikes from Taiwan sucks because they are simply from Taiwan is just not right.

dgasmd

I don't know what the "OP" means, but I suspect it refers to me. Your comment has nothing to do with my question. The personal attach is uncalled for as well.

Again, I presume the "OP" means me No need to take this as a personal insult. Please read my reply a few posts back.

jet sanchEz

OP=original poster

And FYI, being new to Bikeforums, you probably are not aware that there is a rule that you must post pics of any new bike you buy so enough chatting, make with the pics

dgasmd

Thanks for the definition/explanation. I will shoot a couple of pictures. Compared to what I have been seeing here in the last few weeks, it is not much to look at. It is a 2006 Bianchi Brava. Bought it to ride to work mostly and maybe get in a ride or two during the weekend to see if I could get my self back into the sport. Very low end components, but it has a purpose: make me get better so I can go buy a nicely stocked Italian name but Taiwanese-made CF aero bike

Jared88

You don't know their bike building abilities , you asked the question obviously out of ignorance. Then you link a Taiwan made bike to a Huffy.

I see...so people must be involved in pro cycling before they deserve to make a state of the art time and wind cheating bike.

STW

If your wanting to get a good aero bike remember to include the Canadians. I think Guru's are even manufactured in Canada but don't quote me on that. And of course the Cervelo P3C needs to be mentioned.

botto 

made in taiwan, right?

STW

correctamundo!

Jared88

I never took it as a personal insult , but i think you just made it personal with everybody in Taiwan in the bike business.

dgasmd

I guess I'll have to learn to live with some people not liking me too much. Hopefully they won't mess up my bike when I order it in a few months

SamHouston

I thought it was 1979? Wasn't that the year asian produced bicycles first hit 80%? Of the total North American bicycle market?

I'm onlt responding to the OP here, cause the question caught my eye. I bother with brand names because they help determine value by design, QC & warranty/customer service/appreciation.

Besides, where can I go to avoid bothering with brand names? I've yet to see a monochrome bike with naught but the word "Bicycle" and a bar code on it.

Generic® Brand bicycles would totally sell though

Ritterview

The Pro Machine is manufactured in Easton's factory in Taiwan. The Taiwanese have taken the world lead in the manufacture of carbon fiber, and so it makes sense that high end bikes are manufactured there.

Bikes are engineered and designed all over the world. BMC is a Swiss company whose chief engineer is Rolf Singenberger.


Rolf Singenberger, BMC Head of Product Development

https://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006.../singenberger1

So bikes are designed wherever there are bike designers, but nearly always manufactured in Taiwan. I think that overall there appears to be greater differentiation in the design between bikes with carbon fiber than there is in metal bikes. So while it is true that low and high end CF bikes all originate from carbon frame manufactories in Taiwan, the more versatile CF material has allowed greater manifestation of design innovation and excellence, and thus provides a rationale for the price commanded by well designed CF high end bikes though of Taiwanese manufacture.

(A guy I met on a ride who owns a bike company told me that many factories billed as being in Taiwan are actually in mainland China).

mikemets5

my carbon Colnago was made in Italy
my steel Serotta was made in the USA

jet sanchEz

If I am visiting Shanghai, how do I go about getting my hands on a cheap CF frame?

Ritterview

Look up ADK in the Shanghai yellow pages, go to their front door, wave $275 to them, and point to a QS-2.

jet sanchEz

ADK is based in Shangahi? I am serious here, sorry for the derail guys

acorn_user

Some posters are missing the point. There are many reasons why certain makes of bike are very expensive. You end up paying what the market will swallow. The main reason seems to be a brand premium.

Also, not all bikes are made in Taiwan. Not all Bianchi's are made in Taiwan either. In Europe, even the cheapest racing bikes (the Via Nirone) are made in Italy still. Bianchi USA has special models made in Taiwan that are not available in Europe (more's the pity in many respects). And Italy does have a carbon fibre industry. A good one, in fact. MG Rover had the body shells for the X-Power SV made in Italy, and then shipped back to the UK for finishing. De Rosa had Mizuno set up a factory in Italy to make their carbon fibre bikes. So no, not everything is made in Taiwan. There's nothing wrong with Taiwanese stuff either.

But I don't like being asked to pay premium prices for stuff that has been outsourced to cut costs. This is really only succeeding in flattering corporate profits. Eg.. FSA cranks that cost more than Campagnolo or Stronglight ones. Eh? I like the stuff, but they must have a smashing profit margin!

asgelle

How do you know when manufacturing is being outsourced to cut costs and when it is to take advantage of the most advanced technology and experience?

dekalbSTEEL

You guys should read this:

https://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadin...s/bikebiz.html

Pasqually

Yes there is, check the list of clients (and cars, before the cycle section)

https://www.atrgroup.it/clienti.htm

Doid23

Lighten up, Francis.

EdZ

Hmm. I was thinking of declaring Material Science as my major in college this spring, which has a heavy concentration in composites, but I dont want to have to live in Taiwan.

BillMC2

A Corvette and a Cavalier are both made by General Motors.

They aren't the same car.

Even if a frame is manufactured in Taiwan..it does not mean that a 3000 dollar Pinarello frame would be the same fit, feel, finish etc as a 300 dollar ADK frame.