vman1

I am trying to get into road biking. I see some bikes have a brake lever on the top of the handle and some do not. Advantages/disadvantages? Can I add top brakes later on if I wanted to?

CrimsonKarter21

The "suicide levers" were for casual riders, which were people who didn't want to go into the drops every time they had to brake, the shifters were also on the stem on those instead of the down tube. Most all of the bikes that had these "amenities" were pretty junky and didn't have very good components, and, like said before, were for casual riders in kacki shorts.

Jarery

Cyclo Cross bikes usually come standard with them. I own a Kona Jake the Snake which has them. They are convenient, especially if your just tooling around, or in heavy traffic and want to sit up higher.

dtrain

In-line brakes are making a serious comeback in the recreational road biking class. My wife's Specialized Sequioa, for example, features brifters and a second pair of brake levers on the 'tops' (along with a suspension seatpost and adjustable stem). They are a comfort and safety thing for those prefering an upright position. You won't find them on most road bikes, but they are kind of a nice feature for certain folks...even some with lycra instead of kacki.

dauphin

My wife had these added to her Bianchi. She loves them.

operator

Kind of makes you wonder, why bother with STI levers at all. Why not just get grip shifters and inline brake levers?

I can definitley see this trend happening, along with a switch from drops to flat bars or bullhorns. The vast majority of rec riders are spending most of their time on the hoods anyways. And if you're not going to be braking from the hoods, why have the brake levers or even shift levers there?

DieselDan

If that is what the market dictates for that one particular niche....

johnny99

I think they make sense for cyclocross racing, since those folks are often using the top of the bar for more power and need to brake quickly to navigate around obsticals.

For recreational riding, however, most people who think they need them probably have a bike that is too big.

derath

Or people who simply like using the tops as another hand position, yet are concerned about having to react quickly and switch to the hoods in a braking situation.

If you aren't a WW or racing, I see no downside to having them.

-D

johnny99

Downside is that your center of gravity is very high when your hands are on the top of the bar, so braking hard can cause a face plant (aka kissing concrete).

This isn't a problem for cyclocross racers, since they train for those situations and are generally going uphill when their hands are on the bars, which makes a face plant much more difficult.

derath

Oh please, have you looked closely at the position of your body on the top of the bar vs resting on the hoods? My head is maybe a few inches lower. And if it this was that big of a concern, what about all the people riding hybrids and the like. I hear of few of those types face planting.

For the most part I have seen people interested in those brakes being the type that wanted the options of drop bars but are not agressive riders. At least outside the Cyclocross racing scene.

Plus for those people, which do you think could cause a greater panic stop. Using the top bar brakes or freaking and quickly grasping for the hoods?

-D

johnny99

If face planting was uncommon, why was the word invented in the first place? It has been widely used by bicyclists, probably dating back to the 1970s-style suicide levers.

I have a hard time believing that your center of gravity is lower when your hands are on the tops. How can moving your hands farther forward and lower (from the tops to the brake hoods) cause your center of gravity to go up?

Hybrid bike riders don't face plant much because they generally ride more slowly than road bikers. Also, their center of gravity is farther back and the wider handlebars stabalize the upper body. Still, I am sure they do face plant from time to time, especially when going downhill.

PhatRoadie

i used a pair when i borrowed a buddies OCR3. i found the modulation poor when using those levers. (or it could have been the rather weak generic calipers)

derath

I never said faceplants were uncommon. I am disagreeing that your risk of a faceplant due to having inline brakes is significantly higher.


Where did you read that? Let me rephrase my last post. You may have a lower center of gravity when in the hoods vs the tops, but it will be so minor that it wouldn't be a significant factor in a "face plant" situation. Your center of gravity is generally somewhere in your torso. Make a note of how much lower your torso is when on the tops vs the hoods.. We are talking about a negligable change in the center of gravity.



I am sure they do.


The bottom line, on a road bike, is that your are no more likely to faceplant from the use of inline brakes due to your higher center of gravity (which was your contention). Most of the time a "face plant" is caused by improper use of the front brake.

So answer me this. Say you have a rider who wanted inline brakes because they ride on the tops alot. Now say this rider encounters a panic brake situation, say a dog runs in their path). Which scenario do you think is more likely to cause them to overbrake and face plant?

a. They immediately use their inline brakes, which are available at their fingertips without havin to move their hands?

b. They have to quickly move their hands from the tops to the hoods and then grab the brakes?

I would contend that situation B is more likely to cause them to faceplant. Why? Because they are going to lose maybe a second at best in reaction time relocating their hands, which will panic them more, and cause them to have to brake harder than A since they lost the time having to move their hands.

Now also a point of mention, while your center of gravity is negligably lower in the hoods, it also moves you farther forward over the front wheel. I would content that forward movement negates the lower center of gravity.


-D

operator

Hands closer to the stem = less control than if they were further out on the hoods. That is a fact.

derath

That it is.

-D

johnny99

I agree that face plants are often caused by improper use of the front brake, but a top-mounted front brake is much easier to misuse.

Regarding using the tops a lot on flat terrain, as I said the first time, that is usually an indication that your bike is the wrong size.

Jarery

Inline brakes added to a bike does not mean you remove the main ones, its in addition to.
Look back at any poll/survey on this forum at where people place their hands. If i recall its about 80-95% on the hoods and tops. Adding a second set of brakes that can be reached when someos hands are on the tops is a benefit, not a hinderance.

The lessened control of braking closer to the stem is more than offset by being able to slow immediatly instead of having to move your hands and then brake, which means youve lost time so have to brake even harder.

Is there a dissadvantage? The only disadvantage I can see is slightly added weight, slightly added moving parts to wear/break, and the same stigma that is put on someone who has a triple instead of a double. For someone starting in cycling, they are a great idea.

slowandsteady

Who says you can't brake from the hoods? And STI brifters are so superior to grip shifters that they shouldn't be in the same sentence.

derath

I don't have any argument to refute that statement, although I don't agree.

Basically I was only trying to refute your original statement, which was that the likelyhood of a faceplant would be higher due to a higher center of gravity, which is completely wrong.


-D

noisebeam

I often ride a CX bike with inline levers mainly for club rides, but I used to ride it on singletrack quite a bit as well.

I find much greater control using the brifter levers due to hands being further apart on bars.

The only time I use the inline levers is when I want to sit up to coast into a stop during a club ride and use the inline levers for a casual slow stop.

Interestingly when I rode single track (quite rough and hilly) I found I used the drops far more than I do on road (where I often use hoods, but never tops). That is because I found the most control and abilty to navigate obsticals in the drops, plus the most effective breaking. I could get back behind seat for steep downhills in drops just as easy as on the tops and had the advantage of more steering leverage.

I am sure though if I practiced I could get more comfortable on the tops, but my instinct when approachig difficult terrain is to move arms to hoods or drops.

Al

Hoshnasi

Either scenario is as likely as the other if the rider has little to no skill in braking regarless of location of levers. Faceplants happen in panic situations because people grab the front breaks like they slam on the brakes of a car. No ABS on a bike and bikes flip.

slowandsteady

Really?? Ever hear of a faceplant from a recumbent rider? Center of gravity has everything to do with it. Of course you will have to slam on the front brakes and have bad form, but the fact that there is a high center of gravity on a road frame is the reason people go head over heels.

billallbritten

From back in the day, c. 1973, my first adult bike was a Motobecane Mirage. They weren't called suicide levers then but (Un)"Safety" levers.

No way you'd do a face plant (unless you hit something that stopped the bike but not the rider), the problem was the physics of the design and the bendiness in the levers themselves (they made a right angle and actually pulled down on the brake lever - they weren't inline at all - they pivoted at the brake lever) put so little force on the brake cables that stopping was problematic. On mine, I recall, you could pull them up above the bar and still not slow down much. This was partly from the levers layout, partly from the poorer quality brakes on the low end model plus ineffective pads. I got another bike real fast after a non-stopping incident with them, no injury fortunately.

The other thing I liked (NOT) were the stem mounted shift levers - loved the thought of coming off the saddle, sliding down the top tube into one of those things pulled back horizontal so it was pointing you know where.

derath

Grr. This is why forums are sometimes annoying. Slowandsteady, do me a favor and READ the conversation before simply replying. I am not saying that center of gravity has nothing to do with it.

I was simply refuting Johnny99's statement:

Look at your body position when resting on the hoods vs, the top of the bar. Now consider that the center of gravity is basically in your torso. Your center of gravity when holding the top of the bar vs the hoods changes very little. Given that, I would contend that the effect of my center of gravity is almost the same on the top of the bar and the hoods, and therefore braking from the top bar is NOT going to noticably increase my chances of a faceplant due to my center of gravity.


-D