stevecaz

In case you didn't read the press release, Floyd's will present facts about his case that he will be using on his website this week.

Just my 2 cents, but there are so many grievous errors that he simply can't be found guilty. I think we are all hoping its not technicalities that get him off, but that the evidence truely finds him innocent. We shall see.

https://www.floydlandis.com

badkarma

Ohh another flandis post, yay.

Face it, he's guilty, you test positive for testosterone when you leave the patch on too long.

munkyv22

Cool, I'll have to give that a look/see when it's avail.

Chino Nacino

I think that's exactly the kind of attitude Landis is trying to counter. Guilty or not, there aren't too many people who know for sure. What we do know is what information outlets deem worthy of knowing. In the same fashion that news sources have "undeniably" branded him as a cheater, Landis is going to counter that claim by releasing information that would not usually be known until a case is tried and verdict reached. 'Member Hamilton's case update after his trial was over? Not very fruitful after a guilty verdict. Trying to compete with the media at it's own game? Brilliant!

timmhaan

tyler has some details of his case on his website as well.

2thamaxx

100% sure he used drugs.
And I know this for 100% as I'm from Amsterdam

Dubbayoo

There isn't enough testosterone in a single patch to make someone register an 11:1 T:E ratio. Each patch of Androderm contains 12.2mg of Testosterone )and Phloyd couldn't have kept it on more than a few hours), but according to the paperwork only about 2.5mg is dispersed during each 24-hour application. Since the average healthy male will produce between 2.5 and 11 milligrams of testosterone per day a single patch would at most double the amt of testosterone in his body...nowhere near enough to register an 11:1.

Hambone

what about the second set of tests (not the b-sample) which showed that the testosterone was synthetic? I'm still hoping flandis is exonerated but it sure seems unlikely.

Chino Nacino

from a usatoday.com article

• Positive results from a sophisticated carbon isotope test are incorrect because the data indicates that he was out of acceptable range in only one of four testosterone breakdown products examined. All four must be abnormal for a test to be considered positive for an illegal testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio, he asserts.

Again, this could be a result of the news outlets deciding what and what not to report, but who's to know for sure?

steve_wmn

I'm expecting something like the OJ defense. Floyd's team has now had time to scrutinize every minute aspect of the evidence gathering and testing procedure and will magnify some small discrepancies and push them out there to foster reasonable doubt. They should've caught any sample switches right then and there in the lab at the time the tests were made. Instead they'll throw up some minor deviations from procedure as evidence of a conspiracy to frame Floyd.

zimbo

Here's where I am on this...

I'll NEVER KNOW what really happened. And since I'll NEVER REALLY KNOW, I hope the guy gets his name cleared whether he did it or not. If there were a way to KNOW, that would be different. There's no way to really know + I want him to be innocent = I hope he's found innocent whether he did it or not.

--Steve

timmhaan

that's exactly how i feel. as a lowly fan in a different country from where this happened, i can only get third or fourth hand information. everything that reaches my eyes and ears has been filtered by lawyers\managers\publicists\etc.

Dubbayoo

I'm not suggesting he didn't take testosterone. I'm saying he didn't test positive from some testosterone patch, which seems to be the method everyone on the boards is running with. I hope he's innocent too. I like Phloyd.

Hambone

This doesn't answer my question though.

When the results of the T/E ratio of the A and B samples were in, the next test was some kind of high falutin' test, I think using the machine that goes bing. (<--- This is guy-with-a-degree-in-history speak.)

This test showed that the testosterone in question (or at least some of it) was synthetic. And this test was supposed to be definitive. No question. At this point I thought, "Damn, I really wanted to believe this amazing come back story. This sucks." Because it was pretty clear -- this test used isotopes. (Probably one of those words which mean very little to guys who passed chemistry.) So it must be flawless.

Then somebody posted a link to a research piece which showed that if you ate chinese food the night before it could throw this off because the isotope it looks for is soy (or some such mumbo jumbo.)

And I know if I get a belly full of Jack Daniels, I go looking for moo shu pork and salt & pepper squid.

Hambone

Sorry, that read like an attack on your post. It was meant more like a, "Do you know..."

Ritterview

I don't know if he used synthetic testosterone or not, but even if he did I am hoping he gets off by any means, be it technical, legal, or procedural. If it was blood doping, or EPO I would be less sympathetic, but geez, testosterone might provide some advantage, but it would be marginal. There was nothing marginal about Landis' victory. I just don't think that if Floyd resorted to a touch of testosterone on Stage 17 it renders his accomplishments null and void, makes Oscar Pereiro the more deserving Tour de France Champion, and should relegate Floyd's status to that of a cycling pariah with an effective lifetime ban. The punishment in this case is simply out of proportion to the crime, although I understand the rules could hardly be set up any differently.


Takes more than testosterone to do this:


Floyd Landis drops Kloden and co. on the first climb

daytonian

Yep, usually growth hormone and EPO work better in the mountains.

Ritterview

(Sigh) Well, you are probably right. If a rider is using testosterone it is probably part of a whole program of doping, the testosterone is just what happened to test positive.

Snicklefritz

One of the statements that Floyd's attorney's made was that one of the positive samples had an ID# that was not associated with Floyd. That would assume that someone else's sample got mixed up with his due to some malfunctioning of the chain of custody. So that has to be taken into account as well...I don't think Floyd's attorney would lie about that because that is an easy thing to show via records which is apparently how they got that info in the first place. If the lab can't keep its sample numbers straight than how can we believe them when they say a sample is positive???

Cot Du Trent

Well, we KNOW he's a doper. He all but admitted it.
I don't think he should get off, because that just gives everybody else a free pass to shoot up before every race. Tests stop mattering because anybody can get off on a technicality.

If he didn't do it, great, I hope he gets off. I've been given no reason to believe he's innocent, though, so until I see it I don't believe it. Maybe the update to his website WILL provide some support. I'd take it with a grain of salt though.

cyclintom

But you also test positive for a couple of weeks after as well. He didn't.

R600DuraAce

He should pull a Richard Virquene. Get the case dismissed due to some legal technicality. Sign on to a Pro Tour team however he can and win the Tour again in 2007. That should give the world and the UCI the big middle finger. He would be a super hero for thousands of fans.

cyclintom

What do you think growth hormone does? And how does EPO lend any advantage to someone whose normal hematocrit is near 50% already?

cyclintom

Actually what it means is that the laboratory that conducted the tests cannot even keep track of the samples let alone be trusted to test them properly.

cyclintom

Actually tests stop mattering when you cannot trust the labs or the UCI or WADA to conduct them properly and with due regard to the honor of the riders.

It is a disgusting disreputable mess that Floyd would be confronted with a positive result IN THE HEADLINES OF A NEWSPAPER without any way of defending himself.

NO organization that operates in such a manner can be trusted to conduct unbiased and scientific analysis of anything.