ImprezaDrvr

I still want an Independent Fabrications Crown Jewel Steel.

But, until then, it's a new fork for the 'Dale!

ohsfan

Thanks for doing the research.
I didn't realize it would weigh that much! I guess the BA and the Zurich will only weigh a few ounces less. Thanks again!

Dchiefransom

My Lemond Zurich weighed just under 21 pounds when I bought it. 2002 model.

spinner1

hey shokhead!!!! talked to a gal at the bike shop today and she bought the Buenos Aires and she is in heaven. just thought i would pass it along. i checked it out myself, it's *****in!!!!!

Waldo

Highly recommend checking these out. I'm a big fan.
The only 650/700 bike I've ever seen is an 03 Raleigh women's bike.

shokhead

I to like the LeMonds B A but also the fuji and jamis,both i think under 20 pounds,one is 17.5.Wow and thats light for a steel bike.

Captain Crunch

Why is it that people worry so much about aluminum road bikes being so "weak" and yet there are so many aluminium mountain bikes out there which take so much more abuse and last for so long. My aluminum mountain bike has been around for almost 10 years of heavy use and no signs of weakening yet.

It is that the aluminum in road bikes is so much thinner or is it all just a ploy by the people who love steel?

shokhead

Who says its weak?Not me.I'm just looking for a better riding bike and steel is it,as far as cost that is.

ImprezaDrvr

Well, captain, probably both. Alu roadie frames are built to be lighter since, as conventional wisdom has it, they aren't put under the same strain that mtb's are. The knock on aluminum is that it has a finite fatigue life, supposedly.

I say, ride a bunch of bikes and get one that rides the way you want it to.

danr

Stick with steel.

Get a Seven Axiom Steel. They'll customize it for you. However, it cost mucho $$$

ParamountScapin 

Got my new Scapin back from the LBS today. Columbus Nivacron steel, TIG welded, 54cm. Campy Record 10-speed gruppo, Ksyrium wheels, carbon fork, Thomson stem and Prolink saddle. Weighed-in at 19.7 pounds. That is a little over 8 ounces less than my '87 Paramount equipped the same way. Am anxious to get some miles on it over this long weekend to see if it rides as well as the Paramount's lugged Columbus SLX frame does.

And, aluminum road bikes are not "weak". They are just made with a material that is more susceptible to fatigue stress and also has a catastrophic failure mode while steel generally doesn't suffer these problems (it is happier to just rust when given the chance). And steel also provides, what is for me, is a superior ride.

But, this really is a ploy to discredit all things aluminum (like all brake calipers, most handlebars, cranksets, wheel rims, hubs, etc.). Remember, just because you are not paranoid doesn't mean that we aren't out to get you.

Merckxrider

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ParamountScapin

" aluminum road bikes are made with a material that is susceptible to fatigue stress and has a catastrophic failure mode while steel generally doesn't suffer these problems."

Dear Mr. Scapin,

I'll ask for a second time, please provide one (1) article that describes an aluminium road bike having a "catastrophic failure", ending with the rider becoming injured or killed.


Steve

shokhead

I just couldnt see how steel would be better ride so i spoke before i read.Now that i have read up on frames and listen to people i want a nicer ride at my advanced age so its on with steel.Is it true also that a longer wheelbase and chainstays,taller head tube and shorter seat tube will set you up with a more,easy to ride on frame.

Waldo

Steve-
Catastrophic failure pertains to the failure mode of a particular material. Generally speaking, steel will fail in a ductile manner; it will bend. Carbon or aluminum will break; this is what is termed a catastrophic failure.

ParamountScapin 

Waldo - Thx for correcting Merckxrider's misunderstanding of the meaning of "catastrophic failure" as it pertains to materials. The more correct term I should have used is a "catastrophic failure mode". Also, according to the carbon fork manufacturers, carbon materials also generally fail in a something akin to a "ductile" manner and do not "snap". They show cracks and delaminations and a lack of correct alignment and other obvious problems before failure.

shokhead - you have everything right except your statement about the seat-tube. It is a longer seat-tube that provides a "better" ride, not a shorter one. The longer seat-tube has more flex/give, thus providing a more forgiving ride. The very short seat-tube on 51cm and smaller frames is the primary reason they can become very stiff rides if not carefully designed. The opposite is true with very large frames of 60cm and above. Can become "noodlely" due to the long seat-tube.

TimB

I think Shokhead is describing a compact frame, which can give a more comfortable fit if yu an find a frame where the fit is spot and does'nt need overly long or short stems and posts to get it too work.
You can achieve a more upright riding position if the frame is sized to achieve this. You'll have to do your home work very well though.

Waldo

Sounds like Shokhead is describing some of the newer road sport/fun bikes featuring a shorter top tube and longer head tube in order to provide a more upright riding position. These also tend to be slightly relaxed in terms of geometry and thus handling. What ParamountScapin said about seat tubes is most definitely true. I can attest to this, as I ride a 51 cm. The problems with small or large frames being either too stiff or too "noodlely" is exacerbated by framesets that do not use size-specific tubing.

Merckxrider

Hello again,

All I can say, in my humble opinion, is that I've only ridden steel for the past 17 years, road & mtb. I decided to try scandium & carbon fibre and have noticed no difference in terms of comfort. A fifty mile ride was nothing on a Merckx frame and this includes crappy NYC streets. All of the comments regarding fatique, unexpected frame breaking etc... I'm sure are true from a scientific standpoint. But, I'm still waiting to see the report of an aluminium frame failing at high speed, causing the rider to lose control. In the meantime, they'll be other biking obstacles much, much higher on my list of concerns; sun exposure, car doors opening, uncoordinated car drivers, rainy days etc....

Steve

shokhead

More steel,gunner,surly,Derosa.Dont know much about them,yet.

Waldo

Gunnars are made by the same folks as Waterford, just tig welded with less options and paint selections. I rode one last season and was quite pleased.

shokhead

Add masi bikes to the steel list.

ParamountScapin 

Also Scapin, Serotta, the custom builders like HHRacingGroup, Richard Sachs, Rivendel, etc. Almost all companies now offer something in steel. And most high-end custom shops build almost exclusively in steel.

Think I just read something about Trek actually coming out with a couple of road bike frames in steel that are badged as Treks and not Lemonds. Will wonders never cease?

ImprezaDrvr

PS- I'd be impressed if Trek offered high end steel. The more the better, (I say that in spite of the 'Dale).

If I can get the 'Dale ready for another couple of years without breaking the bank, I'll shoot for a cool domestic, a la Independent Fabrications, or go for Italian steel, a la Colnago. Maybe if I start saving for that now and don't throw a turbo in my car, it'll happen.

uciflylow

I wish Trek would offer a higher end road bike in high end steel under the Trek logo. We have dealers here for Trek!

ImprezaDrvr

Anyone remember the 990 (I think that was it)? It was Trek's high end steel mountain bike 5 or 7 years ago. Triple butted steel. A buddy I worked with in a shop had one then, and still has it now. I think it's his singlespeed these days. Sweet frame. I remember selling one to a guy that was stoked to be getting such a great bike. Anyway, it'd be great if they put out a frame like that again.