Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 49
  1. #1
    ex frame builder
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    516
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    What scares me more than reckless drivers?

    It's people with attitudes like this.

    This guy is commenting on the cyclist who was killed by the 19 year old downloading ringtones.
    His attitude is that the cyclist is a fool to put himself in danger by being on the road.

    Please read his blog http://scconfident.blogspot.com/2006...fool-that.html and then send him a comment, maybe post your comment here.

    Addendum.
    The guy has comment moderation on his blog so it is a waste of time to comment there. I will write my own blog in response a maybe include a few of your excellent comments.

    Addendum 2 (12/5/06)

    To give credit to Lee, the person who posted the South Carolina Confidential Blog; he did post 31 comments the vast majority of which were pro cyclist. He has posted a follow up post http://scconfident.blogspot.com/2006/12/to-clarify.html and states that the only ones he didn’t post contained threatening or foul language.

    This meant that he did read them all, which is good. I think we got our point across; and although he dosen't concede on all points, he does on some. Thank you for all the highly intelligent comments, I was extremely touched by them all.
    Last edited by Dave Moulton; 12-05-06 at 05:55 AM.
    History, photos and tech articles on my website. Also check "Dave's Bike Blog."

  2. #2
    don't misunderestimate me BoSoxYacht's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    take your time, enjoy the scenery, it will be there when you get to it
    My Bikes
    07 IRO BFGB fixed-gear, 07 Pedal Force RS
    Posts
    5,617
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    the comments I left cannot be posted here(little eyes might see them).

  3. #3
    Carpe Diem bdcheung's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    MABRA
    My Bikes
    2007 CAAD9; 2014 CAADX; PedalForce CG1
    Posts
    13,143
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I think he deleted your comments
    "When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
    ΛΧΑ ΔΞ179 - 15% off your first Hammer Nutrition order!

  4. #4
    don't misunderestimate me BoSoxYacht's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    take your time, enjoy the scenery, it will be there when you get to it
    My Bikes
    07 IRO BFGB fixed-gear, 07 Pedal Force RS
    Posts
    5,617
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    my comments involved him dying after being run over by the 19 year old driver.

  5. #5
    Now 100% Mullet Free! Ironic Mullet's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The 512
    My Bikes
    2003 Litespeed Tuscany
    Posts
    452
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Lee on 12/1:

    "Share the road" is a fantasy that only exists in a Utopian world.

    Lee on 11/28:

    Common courtesy and simple politeness is, little by little, vanishing in American culture.


    Nice disconnect there.

  6. #6
    Peloton Dog patentcad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Chester, NY
    My Bikes
    2013 Scott Foil, 2009 Scott Addict R2, 2008 Cervelo P3 TT bike, 2008 Motobecane Fly Ti Hard Tail MTB
    Posts
    56,332
    Mentioned
    36 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Yes the blogger is an idiot and an jerk.

    And you may not want to hear this, but he has a BIT of a point. Yes we DO assume some major risk riding our bicycles on the road with cars. I'm not sure what's dumber, the blogger, or failing to understand the inherent risk in riding a road bike - and then getting an aneurism everytime the inevitable 'cyclist killed by car' incident goes down.

    But I do refer you to my initial comment, the blogger is an idiot and a jerk. So consider that before you flame me for implying that you're vunerable to 4000 lb. cars on the roads you ride on. In fact, never mind, nothing can ever happen to YOU.

    Obliviousness is bliss : ).

  7. #7
    Dirt-riding heretic DrPete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Gig Harbor, WA
    My Bikes
    Lynskey R230/Red, Blue Triad SL/Red, Cannondale Scalpel 3/X9
    Posts
    17,416
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    The hilarious thing is that this guy doesn't think he's assuming a risk by getting into his car and driving it.

    Has anyone read the Time magazine article from last week about perceived risk and real risk? It looked interesting but I'm not a Time subscriber so I haven't found it yet...
    "Unless he was racing there was no way he could match my speed."

  8. #8
    34x25 FTW! oboeguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    NYC
    My Bikes
    Kona Jake, Scott CR1, Dahon SpeedPro
    Posts
    6,008
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Don't feed the troll (the blogger, not the OP!).

    I'd love to see that Time article, Dr. P. Give a holler if you find it!
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Order
    Quote Originally Posted by sknhgy
    I do not want to be associated with the kind of riders that come through my neck of the woods on weekends, dressed in superhero costumes
    Do they wear capes?
    ---

    http://www.cycopaths.net/

  9. #9
    Peloton Dog patentcad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Chester, NY
    My Bikes
    2013 Scott Foil, 2009 Scott Addict R2, 2008 Cervelo P3 TT bike, 2008 Motobecane Fly Ti Hard Tail MTB
    Posts
    56,332
    Mentioned
    36 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ironic Mullet
    Lee on 12/1:

    "Share the road" is a fantasy that only exists in a Utopian world.

    Lee on 11/28:

    Common courtesy and simple politeness is, little by little, vanishing in American culture.


    Nice disconnect there.
    +1.

    Thankfully 99.9% of drivers are very cool or we'd all be friggin DEAD.

  10. #10
    Infamous Member chipcom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    My Bikes
    Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
    Posts
    24,373
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by patentcad
    Yes the blogger is an idiot and an jerk.

    And you may not want to hear this, but he has a BIT of a point. Yes we DO assume some major risk riding our bicycles on the road with cars. I'm not sure what's dumber, the blogger, or failing to understand the inherent risk in riding a road bike - and then getting an aneurism everytime the inevitable 'cyclist killed by car' incident goes down.

    But I do refer you to my initial comment, the blogger is an idiot and a jerk. So consider that before you flame me for implying that you're vunerable to 4000 lb. cars on the roads you ride on. In fact, never mind, nothing can ever happen to YOU.

    Obliviousness is bliss : ).
    Yes, we are vulnerable, but cycling is on the roadways is NOT a major risk...unless riding in oblivious bliss is your riding style. We're also vulnerable doing countless other things during the normal course of our lives...of which cycling doesn't even make the top ten - yet we do them anyway.
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  11. #11
    ROM 6:23 flipped4bikes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Coastal Maine
    My Bikes
    Specialized Tricross Comp, Lemond Tourmalet, Bridgestone MB-5
    Posts
    1,713
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    So what are the statistical odds of being killed while riding a bike? Isn't the average in the U.S. about 800 a year? It's probably a lot lower than your odds of dying from the flu. I hate this line of reasoning, because it's stupid. Yeah, we're exposed to a 2-ton plus vehicle, but what do you do about a silly microbe? Stay home? Didn't think so...

    Another thing I hate are bloggers like this guy who have comment moderation enabled. Hey you wanna blog, then let us respond fairly, and post the comments! Otherwise stop wasting our time...
    Every time we let a vehicle pass there is a little bit of compromise. But compromise allows the city to function and allows cyclists to function in the city. The trick is not to eliminate compromise but to learn how to work safely within it.

    --Robert Hurst

  12. #12
    Dirt-riding heretic DrPete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Gig Harbor, WA
    My Bikes
    Lynskey R230/Red, Blue Triad SL/Red, Cannondale Scalpel 3/X9
    Posts
    17,416
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by oboeguy
    I'd love to see that Time article, Dr. P. Give a holler if you find it!
    Ahh... I did. Interesting read. In many ways it would seem to support what many of us believe about cycling, i.e. that it's overall a pretty safe activity, and that the health benefits far outweigh the true risks. But because our psyche focuses on immediate things (getting run down by a motorist) we sort of ignore the comparatively tiny probability of that versus dying a long, protracted, painful death from, say, the complications of type 2 diabetes if you don't exercise.

    Anyway, here it is--draw your own conclusions....
    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...2978-1,00.html
    "Unless he was racing there was no way he could match my speed."

  13. #13
    Dirt-riding heretic DrPete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Gig Harbor, WA
    My Bikes
    Lynskey R230/Red, Blue Triad SL/Red, Cannondale Scalpel 3/X9
    Posts
    17,416
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by chipcom
    Yes, we are vulnerable, but cycling is on the roadways is NOT a major risk...unless riding in oblivious bliss is your riding style. We're also vulnerable doing countless other things during the normal course of our lives...of which cycling doesn't even make the top ten - yet we do them anyway.
    Chipcom, you should totally check out this Time article I linked above--right up your alley!
    "Unless he was racing there was no way he could match my speed."

  14. #14
    more ape than man timmhaan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    nyc
    Posts
    8,093
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by DrPete
    The hilarious thing is that this guy doesn't think he's assuming a risk by getting into his car and driving it.

    Has anyone read the Time magazine article from last week about perceived risk and real risk? It looked interesting but I'm not a Time subscriber so I haven't found it yet...
    i read it. very interesting article actually. they talk a lot about how feeling in control leads you to think you're safer. that's why many people feel safer driving than, say, flying. even though 44,000 people die per year in automobile accidents and only a few dozen die in airline travel.

    they also talked about real and immediate dangers as opposed to hype. take heart disease, for example, which kills something like 600,000 people per year. then take the avian bird flu, or mad cow disease, which has killed 0 people in the US. you'd think more people would be concerned about taking care of their heart, but it's not the reality.

  15. #15
    Senior Member gfrance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    1,757
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by DrPete
    The hilarious thing is that this guy doesn't think he's assuming a risk by getting into his car and driving it.

    Has anyone read the Time magazine article from last week about perceived risk and real risk? It looked interesting but I'm not a Time subscriber so I haven't found it yet...

    here's the Time story (should work):

    http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/26/cov....tm/index.html

  16. #16
    Mistadobalina AGGRO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Clairemont
    My Bikes
    Trek Hilo
    Posts
    572
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    What a tool. Rush and gang already have the shock jockery spots wrapped up. Get new material.


    Maybe he'll get speed bumped on the way home by a rider, gotta get outta that car some time LOL

  17. #17
    member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Bay Area
    My Bikes
    2005 Raleigh Competition, 2009 Specialized Roubaix Expert, 2012 Santa Cruz LT Carbon
    Posts
    95
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Just my observation
    have a some non-cycling (in fact not athletic at all) friends and some day after few shots of vodka we started talking about cyclists and traffic and rights on the road - I was shocked how match they hate us. The only term they refer us is "Those idiots". Seriously, we few have cyclists in our company and we all are friends but when it comes to "share a road" - they just don't get it. And this is in Bay Area where on some roads you can see more cyclist than cars and supposedly tolerance level is pretty high.

  18. #18
    Faster but still slow slowandsteady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Jersey
    My Bikes
    Trek 830 circa 1993 and a Fuji WSD Finest 1.0 2006
    Posts
    5,979
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Life is fatal 100% of the time. Do what you enjoy and stop being so darned scared.
    "Ride lots." -- Eddy Merckx

  19. #19
    Infamous Member chipcom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    My Bikes
    Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
    Posts
    24,373
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by DrPete
    Chipcom, you should totally check out this Time article I linked above--right up your alley!
    Nice article, though it seems to avoid talking in detail about, what to me, is the number one factor in risk assessment/avoidance - your own common sense, experience, and yes, that 'primitive' little voice in your head that tells you to zig rather than zag.
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  20. #20
    Dirt-riding heretic DrPete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Gig Harbor, WA
    My Bikes
    Lynskey R230/Red, Blue Triad SL/Red, Cannondale Scalpel 3/X9
    Posts
    17,416
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by chipcom
    Nice article, though it seems to avoid talking in detail about, what to me, is the number one factor in risk assessment/avoidance - your own common sense, experience, and yes, that 'primitive' little voice in your head that tells you to zig rather than zag.
    True--it tends to focus more on risks that affect the general population and discuss them in broad terms, but a lot of it resonated with me as a cyclist...
    "Unless he was racing there was no way he could match my speed."

  21. #21
    Senior Member Dubbayoo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Atlanta
    My Bikes
    Pedal Force QS3
    Posts
    7,683
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Maybe he'll approve this:

    I am also a cyclist but the fact that a cyclist is involved in this incident is almost beside the point. This driver was so far off the road that she hit him with the LEFT side of her car.
    That means the victim could have been you walking down the sidewalk with not a care in the world, or a young mother pushing a stroller.

    As far as the earlier comment - "A bicyclist who demands his rights on the roadways are just living in their own little worlds as well. Hmmm, 1/2 ton car vs a Schwinn, who do you think will win that one?"

    I'll respond with this - Compact car drivers who demands their rights on the roadways are just living in their own little worlds as well. Hmmm, a 1/2 ton car vs a fully loaded 18-wheeler, who do you think will win that one?

    The fact is cyclists ARE entitled to share the road, and drivers are obligated to treat them as motor vehicles. Sure, we'll lose the physical battle every time. However that doesn't make the auto driver any less wrong for causing the accident.

  22. #22
    Senior Member sportbiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    My Bikes
    Olmo Gran Fondo and Bianchi Squadra
    Posts
    243
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Here's the comment I posted on his blog. Let's see if he makes it visible:

    Consider a different context: Who's the bigger fool? Smith, who works in a smelting plant? Or Brown, who also works there and carelessly knocked Smith into a vat of molten steel?

    Being on the road is similar in that it's a potentially hazardous activity for all users, including the 44,000 non-bicycling fatalities each year. That shared risk demands a few things of all roadway users (and all employees at a smelting plant, for that matter): a level of attention to the task at hand, an extra dose of attention to compensate for those who may not have enough of their own, and a consideration for the risk one is posing to the other users. The workplace slogan of safety being everyone's concern is equally true of roadway users.

    A bicyclist using the rules of Vehicular Cycling (Google "John Forester") is fulfilling every obligation that a roadway user has, and is acting in a responsible manner. Any attempt to make such a cyclist the guilty party in his accident or death is wrong. It is absolving the auto driver of his responsibilities and obligations as a roadway user, and is transferring the blame to the victim. It's akin to blaming a woman for her ****.

    Using your type of reasoning, let's determine the fault in any auto-auto accident by putting the two vehicles on a scale: the lighter vehicle's driver is at fault automatically because he put himself at risk knowing there are heavier vehicles on the road. Then add how much of a shame it is that that's the way the roads in this country are, and wouldn't it be peachy if everyone took the bus instead.

    Lastly, your prior blog post is about the loss of manners in society. Don't manners include looking out for the other person? If it applies to "Do you mind if I smoke?", how much more does it apply to "Do you mind if I kill you?"
    Last edited by sportbiker; 12-04-06 at 02:12 PM.

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    6,900
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Notice the pix of the guy with the assualt *****.

  24. #24
    ROM 6:23 flipped4bikes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Coastal Maine
    My Bikes
    Specialized Tricross Comp, Lemond Tourmalet, Bridgestone MB-5
    Posts
    1,713
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by oilman_15106
    Notice the pix of the guy with the assualt *****.
    ^^^^^Check this out: if you click on his link (the one in the upper right, the pic of him pointing a *****) he has an "About Lee" page. In it he answers "Almost 100 Questions".

    #19: What's your idea of a righteous death? Defending the weak and innocent

    Huh? Freakin' hypocrite...
    Every time we let a vehicle pass there is a little bit of compromise. But compromise allows the city to function and allows cyclists to function in the city. The trick is not to eliminate compromise but to learn how to work safely within it.

    --Robert Hurst

  25. #25
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Fairfax, VA
    My Bikes
    Trek Madone 5.2 w/10 spd Ultegra.
    Posts
    43
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by sportbiker
    Here's the comment I posted on his blog. Let's see if he makes it visible:

    Consider a different context: Who's the bigger fool? Smith, who works in a smelting plant? Or Brown, who also works there and carelessly knocked Smith into a vat of molten steel?

    Being on the road is similar in that it's a potentially hazardous activity for all users, including the 44,000 non-bicycling fatalities each year. That shared risk demands a few things a all roadway users (and all employees at a smelting plant, for that matter): a level of attention to the task at hand, an extra dose of attention to compensate for those who may not have enough of their own, and a consideration for the risk one is posing to the other users. The workplace slogan of safety being everyone's concern is equally true of roadway users.

    A bicyclist using the rules of Vehicular Cycling (Google "John Forester") is fulfilling every obligation that a roadway user has, and is acting in a responsible manner. Any attempt to make such a cyclist the guilty party in his accident or death is wrong. It is absolving the auto driver of his responsibilities and obligations as a roadway user, and is transferring the blame to the victim. It's akin to blaming a woman for her ****.

    Using your type of reasoning, let's determine the fault in any auto-auto accident by putting the two vehicles on a scale: the lighter vehicle's driver is at fault automatically because he put himself at risk knowing there are heavier vehicles on the road. Then add how much of a shame it is that that's the way the roads in this country are, and wouldn't it be peachy if everyone took the bus instead.

    Lastly, your prior blog post is about the loss of manners in society. Don't manners include looking out for the other person? If it applies to "Do you mind if I smoke?", how much more does it apply to "Do you mind if I kill you?"
    Excellent explanation and analogy. I hope you'll be satisified knowing that most of the cyclists reading it will understand and probably agree but that the "gent" whose comments generated this thread will be the one person who won't understand what you've taken the time to explain.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •