Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 50 of 50
  1. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    2,413
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by zonatandem
    Cyclintom:
    How many miles have you ridden?
    How many times you've been hit by a car (your fault or car driver)?
    Do you have good health insurance?
    Are you an organ donor?
    Whether you want to wear a helmet or not, is none of my business . . .

    I've bicycled over a quarter million miles (am only 74 years old now).
    Been hit 3 times by car/truck (each time driver was ticketed).
    Fortunately I've got good health insurance as one of the driver's did not have insurance at all.
    And, by choice, I do wear a helmet and am also an organ donor.

    . . . and, most of all, we wish Dave a speedy recovery!!!
    To answer your questions:

    1) I have over 100,000 miles in the last 20 years. I didn't keep track of it before that but I wasn't riding between '62 and '86. Though I did ride and race motorcycles during that time and learned to watch traffic and outthink them.

    2) I have NEVER been involved in an accident with a motor vehicle on either my bicycles or my motorcycles. I have had literally hundreds of close calls before learning what to watch for and when.

    3) Yes, I have very good health insurance but do you suppose that somehow excuses me or anyone else from taking due caution?

    4) Perhaps you ought to remind me what my "organ donor" status has to do with this subject?

    5) Indeed it should be no one's business what SOMEONE ELSE decides to do in the helmet arguments. Too bad that so few believe in that principle.

  2. #27
    Elite Fred mollusk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Edge City
    My Bikes
    2009 Spooky (cracked frame), 2006 Curtlo, 2002 Lemond (current race bike) Zurich, 1987 Serotta Colorado, 1986 Cannondale for commuting, a 1984 Cannondale on loan to my son
    Posts
    10,599
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by DrPete
    I have yet to read in any of your posts that Mr. Moulton would be better off without a helmet.
    Maybe he wouldn't be having a headache and double vision right now if he didn't wear a helmet?
    I'm the world's forgotten boy. The one who's searchin', searchin' to destroy.

  3. #28
    Pretty Hate Machine Weeks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Down in it
    My Bikes
    Bianchi Brava
    Posts
    435
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If you're riding a bike, it seems to me that the most easily-fatal injury you can sustain is to the skull. It takes a much worse wreck to give you internal-organ damaging injuries than a wreck to cause coup or contra-coup injury/concussions etc.

    Worst wreck of my life was at 5mph..idling over a speedbump, no helmet, on a wal-mart pos. front end fell apart, i hit the pavement with my head. concussion, permanent scarring, chunks of hair torn out. with no forward momentum to speak of - just hitting the ground! if i had done that with my arm or shoulder, the injury would have been painful, but much less serious. head injuries seem to have a tendency to bleed like crazy and let me tell you, i was covered in blood.

    a helmet would have prevented all of that.

    isn't protecting your most vulnerable and valuable asset worth promoting helmet safety?
    and i'm glad helmet laws are responsible for taking stupid random recreational idiots who have absolutely no idea what they're doing off of city streets. everyone i know who wears a helmet is serious about cycling and knows what they're doing, and those are the only people who should be on the streets.

  4. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    2,413
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by 55/Rad
    Interesting claim. Can you substantiate this? I'm interested in interpreting the language of this myself. Is it based on sheer number of accidents or actual case by case studies?
    Rad - you cannot use miles as a measure because people do not use miles when determining whether to ride a bike or not - everyone uses TIME.

    Therefore you don't compare injuries per mile but injuries per UNIT TIME of use. The Insurance Institute does these sorts of things and compiles a list of the most dangerous activities.

    I will have to research the location now since my links to that list are now broken.

    However, rest assured that bicycling is no more dangerous than riding in a car and on some of the statistics is shown at twice the rate of car safety.

    Hmm, here's something:

    http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/health/risks.htm

    Down near the bottom of the page:

    Motoring - .47 fatalities per million hours of exposure
    Bicycling - .26 fatalities per million hours of exposure
    Last edited by cyclintom; 12-10-06 at 07:21 PM.

  5. #30
    DocRay
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by cyclintom
    Then by all means tell us what you actually know about the subject.
    Your thinly-veiled anti-government right-wing rants are pointless to argue. It's like arguing with Rush Limbaugh. You carefully misuse statistics of fatalities with cyclists, while completely ignoring head injuries: quadraplegics and those with brain damage are not in those statistics.

    Let's look at head injuries in Ontario from the start of our commie helmet laws:

    Effect on casualties
    The percentage of child cyclists admitted to hospital with head injury pre and post law was as follows [2] [6]:
    1994-95 1995-96 1996-97 1997-98 2001-02
    40.6% 35.9% 33.9% 28.5% 21.2%

    Most cycling in the 1995-96 fiscal year would have taken place before enactment of the law as Ontario winters are not conducive to cycling as a popular activity. The greatest falls in % head injury took place before legislation and more than one year after legislation. The year following introduction of the helmet law was associated with the smallest reduction in head injuries. It seems likely, therefore, that on-going trends rather than the helmet law was responsible for the changes over time. [3]
    A subsequent analysis from 1997-98 to 2001-02 showed a 12.5% decrease in all hospital admissions for child cyclists and a 26% reduction in head injuries [6]. During most of this period the helmet wearing rate was similar to that pre-legislation. At the beginning of this period (1997-98) % head injuries were declining similarly in all provinces, with and without helmet laws [2].


    But helmet use has gone way up in all provinces since 1995. This shows two aspects: helmets laws don't really make a difference, but wearing helmets makes a huge difference.

    Your claims that helmets cause injuries is baseless. Your continual fabrications about this subject are pathological. I really hope in real life people respect your opinions even less than in this forum and you have no influence over younger riders.

    Don't wear a helmet? Fine, but you are quite likely to end up in a convalescent hospital on the taxpayers bill.

    There are some annoying BF members, but your continual anti-helmet rants are really worthy of banning you from this forum.

  6. #31
    Senior Member Nessism's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Torrance, CA
    My Bikes
    Homebuilt steel
    Posts
    2,324
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    This is one of the dumbest threads I have ever read, at least, the later posts where cyclintom is ranting about helmet usage.

    SIMPLE FACT: Dave's helmet helped him!!! Period. Wear one if you wish, and are smart!
    Becareful buying/selling bike parts on-line. I learned the hard way. :(

    Good/Bad Trader Listing

  7. #32
    your nightmare gal chipcom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    The Cracker Factory
    Posts
    24,352
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You guys know I don't wear helmets much, but anyone who would try to claim that anyone would be 'better off' without one, is just plain crazy. About the only instance I have ever seen where a helmet could be considered a problem is in the case where the pointy edges or vents catch on something, snapping your neck like a twig...how often has anyone heard of that happening?

    I know darn well that my head isn't THAT hard that it could withstand a good impact...that's part of the reason why I don't wear one...I never want to take the prospect of going down lightly because I have some false sense of protection. I'm the same on a motorcycle. But that's me, I'm not about to recommend my own warped outlook on life to others.

    Of course, my biggest fear isn't my head...what scares the bejeebers outta me is breaking a collarbone or something else what might put me in the hospital rather than the morgue...no offense doc(s), but I have come closer to death in hospitals than in combat! If the bullet don't getcha, the doctors will! (yes I'm joking....but barely!)
    Last edited by chipcom; 12-10-06 at 07:26 PM.
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  8. #33
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    3,310
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If this board had any good moderation to speak of cyclintom would have been banned eons ago.

    He continuously derails threads with long-winded rants that have absolutely no place.

    This could have been a productive discussion. Instead, it's a vindictive little axe-grind. Thanks, tom.

  9. #34
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    New York State
    Posts
    22
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I had the exact same accident at the end of September. A utility truck coming the opposite direction made a left turn right in front of me and i couldn't avoid him. No doubt the (now destroyed) helmet was a big factor in keeping it to a day in the ER with a couple of dozen stitches instead of a much more serious event.

  10. #35
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    2,413
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by chipcom
    About the only instance I have ever seen where a helmet could be considered a problem is in the case where the pointy edges or vents catch on something, snapping your neck like a twig...how often has anyone heard of that happening?
    I presently ride with a man (a lawyer and county Judge btw) who had precisely that happen. Luckily he realized what happened and didn't try to move and the guy with him was a cop trained in proper actions. They called an ambulance and carefully took him into the ER. He was in a "halo" for six months or so and rides with us today.

    He distinctly felt the helmet catch on a chain link fence as he turned onto a bike path and he went down.

    By the way, I mistakenly said that "serious injuries" were anything that required an ER appearance. In fact that was incorrect. A "serious" injury is one that requires at least an overnight stay after admittance to the ER.

    There are approximately 50,000 "head injuries" each year but only some 1,200 of them are "serious". I'm not trying to minimize these injuries but the largest percentage of them are to the FACE which isn't protected by the helmet and are relatively minor in nature.

  11. #36
    Long-time Curmudgeon DrPete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Still here
    Posts
    17,387
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by chipcom
    You guys know I don't wear helmets much, but anyone who would try to claim that anyone would be 'better off' without one, is just plain crazy. About the only instance I have ever seen where a helmet could be considered a problem is in the case where the pointy edges or vents catch on something, snapping your neck like a twig...how often has anyone heard of that happening?

    I know darn well that my head isn't THAT hard that it could withstand a good impact...that's part of the reason why I don't wear one...I never want to take the prospect of going down lightly because I have some false sense of protection. I'm the same on a motorcycle. But that's me, I'm not about to recommend my own warped outlook on life to others.

    Of course, my biggest fear isn't my head...what scares the bejeebers outta me is breaking a collarbone or something else what might put me in the hospital rather than the morgue...no offense doc, but I have come closer to death in hospitals than in combat! If the bullet don't getcha, the doctors will! (yes I'm joking....but barely!)
    At the end of the day I can't make anyone wear a helmet, nor do I tell people to wear them in anything other than in my professional capacity. What got me and several others about this thread is that the case in question involved a direct blow to the head that the helmet dissipated, and cyclintom's rant goes into the idiocy of encouraging helmet use.

    As far as the catch-a-vent-and-snap-your-neck possibility, yeah, I guess it's possible, but I've not seen or read anything about an increased incidence of these types of injuries as a result of helmet use. Maybe it's out there, but I haven't seen it, and neither has the American College of Surgeons Committee on Trauma or the American College of Emergency Physicians, both of whom recommend helmet use on a bike.

    I totally agree that a helmet shouldn't provide anyone with a false sense of protection. People do need to know that there's a lot a helmet won't protect against and ride smart. Maybe if I had any faith in US motorists and their actions around cyclists I wouldn't wear one either, but I'll pay the money to put it on my head because 1. there's really nothing bad about wearing one, and 2. there's an outside chance that, as in the case being discussed, it can lessen the severity of a blow to the head. But people doo need to be realistic and know that any bike vs. car contest will usually have a pretty clear winner.
    "Unless he was racing there was no way he could match my speed."

  12. #37
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    2,413
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by DrPete
    Once again, wearing the blinders. So there's been an increase in severe head injuries, probably owing to more cyclists getting hit by cars. One could infer from that that there's been an increase in the type of injuries that helmets are not designed to protect against. Where in that pretty quote does it say that helmets are a bad thing? Also, are the cyclists who have increased numbers of head injuries the ones who are wearing helmets? Hmm... guess it doesn't say, does it?

    I have yet to read in any of your posts that Mr. Moulton would be better off without a helmet. Why, pray tell, might that be? Why haven't you volunteered to expose your unhelmeted head to the same impact as Dave Moulton's?

    Yes, there are other things to learn about safe riding than wearing a helmet. This is a known fact. Your smoke-and-mirrors argument about helmets fails to draw anyone's attention to that.
    I wonder why the violent reaction to suggestions that your helmet may not be protecting you? Several other posters here are screaming that I'm "ranting" while they're calling me names.

    I INTERPRET the fact that head injuries have gone up while ridership has fallen to the fact that the people who GET head injuries are increasing even though those who ride are leaving the sport.

    I suggest that since a large percentage of those who are killed on bicycles are those who have lost their licenses to drive, drink heavily and ride at night time might have something to do with increased deaths. And these people have no option but to use bicycles or public transportation of some sort.

    We do know that there's been a somewhat greater push to get unsafe drivers off the road and these are mainly drunk drivers, so even though ridership in general is being reduced for several reasons, the group most likely to get into accidents is growing.

    Wear a helmet if you wish but please ride carefully. It will be a lot more effective at increasing your safety.

    Here's a list of things I've seen in the last couple of group rides I've been on:

    1) Running stop signs WITHOUT looking. If the front guy looks and runs the sign why would someone in the fifth tier do so also? Too busy talking?

    2) Not observing how drivers are acting. Driver usually DO NOT signal turns. Yes, it's required by law but they don't do it. So you need to watch their activities closely when there are cross streets and driveways.

    3) Not LOOKING for exiting vehicles from driveways - especially blind driveways that have high hedges and the like right on the street.

    4) Riding so hard that you become growing too tired to pay serious attention to the road traffic.

    Tell me, if you're time trialing on city streets and you grow too weary to notice that a car is about to turn left, can you say that it is entirely the motor vehicle driver's fault that you couldn't avoid the accident you didn't see coming and everyone else did?

  13. #38
    your nightmare gal chipcom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    The Cracker Factory
    Posts
    24,352
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cyclintom
    I presently ride with a man (a lawyer and county Judge btw) who had precisely that happen. Luckily he realized what happened and didn't try to move and the guy with him was a cop trained in proper actions. They called an ambulance and carefully took him into the ER. He was in a "halo" for six months or so and rides with us today.

    He distinctly felt the helmet catch on a chain link fence as he turned onto a bike path and he went down.

    By the way, I mistakenly said that "serious injuries" were anything that required an ER appearance. In fact that was incorrect. A "serious" injury is one that requires at least an overnight stay after admittance to the ER.

    There are approximately 50,000 "head injuries" each year but only some 1,200 of them are "serious". I'm not trying to minimize these injuries but the largest percentage of them are to the FACE which isn't protected by the helmet and are relatively minor in nature.
    But here's the thing...many, including me, maintain that the odds of going down AND sustaining a head injury are within the realm of our personal acceptable risk. Fine. But the odds of a the edges/vents of a helmet catching on something are even greater - probably in the realm of being struck by lightning or winning the lottery. So, to mitigate that risk, one merely has to choose a better helmet (the reason why my helmet (yes, I own one and wear it when required or feel that the risk justifies it...like winter weather commuting) is a Bell Citi, is because it doesn't have the pointy edges or overly wide vents. It is NOT a reason to advocate not wearing a helmet altogether.

    Dude, I know that sometimes this whole helmet thing feels like so many other things in our society, where you feel you are the subject of a witch hunt. Lord knows I feel like a relic of the past anymore, because so many things that I have always taken for granted are becoming frowned upon or downright illegal. But, and I don't take my own advice well much of the time, sometimes it's best to just shut up, or at the least be lighthearted and humorous in your opposition, rather than to get into the same old heated debates that accomplish nothing but bad feelings. Life is short, live it your way and let others live it their way...and if they don't agree with your way, just smile and thank them for their concern.

    I'll jump off my soapbox now, since everyone else in the thread is probably itching to get a piece of me for opening my big, fat, mouth, as usual.

    Edit: the appropriate response for a thread like this, which I have so rudely ommited - I'm glad Dave's OK.
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  14. #39
    Long-time Curmudgeon DrPete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Still here
    Posts
    17,387
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    I'll leave it to someone else to argue that a helmet is the only safety mechanism for a cyclist, because I never have and won't. Why you choose to continue thrashing around and claiming that I am is beyond me.

    Did you ever stop to think that the poor, drunk, uneducated cyclists who are dying in these accidents might be the ones not wearing helmets? Why on Earth would anyone leap to such a conclusion?
    "Unless he was racing there was no way he could match my speed."

  15. #40
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    2,413
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by DrPete
    I'll leave it to someone else to argue that a helmet is the only safety mechanism for a cyclist, because I never have and won't. Why you choose to continue thrashing around and claiming that I am is beyond me.

    Did you ever stop to think that the poor, drunk, uneducated cyclists who are dying in these accidents might be the ones not wearing helmets? Why on Earth would anyone leap to such a conclusion?
    Firstly I am addressing the questions you raised and not suggesting you are making any claims. Plainly you haven't though you are upset that you're being questioned about your choices. I hardly think that is correct.

    Secondly, you seem to be saying that if these drunk cyclists who are riding in the dark without lights and riding on the wrong side of the street were wearing helmets that they wouldn't be equally dead.

    You are a doctor and from your other postings it's clear that you're a very competent one. I'm surprised that doesn't stand out in your mind.

    And by the way - apparently MOST ER death report forms do not include any checklist that includes whether or not a cyclist was wearing a helmet at the time of his injury. Also most of the time a helmet is left at the scene of an accident. Queries to several statistical workers in the field suggested to me that if there isn't a WEARING HELMET comment that the NHSA form defaults to "no helmet". So statistics about how fatalities generally aren't wearing helmets aren't reliable.

    I don't know about you, but I almost never see a bicyclist without a helmet any more and yet there's been essentially no change in the rates of head injuries to cyclists in California.

  16. #41
    OM boy cyclezen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Goleta CA
    My Bikes
    a bunch
    Posts
    3,011
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cyclintom
    I wish for Mr. Moulton's rapid and complete recovery.
    maybe the post could've stopped here.
    Quote Originally Posted by cyclintom
    Though I wish that he'd have stayed away from the idiotic idea of pushing helmets on people some more.
    ...
    Now, wear a helmet if you like, it probably doesn't hurt anything, but it is FAR more important to learn how to behave on the road, to pressure the legislature to pass laws to not just promote but to FORCE safer driving of motor vehicles and to make everyone more aware that the roads are for everyone and not just the monied few.
    The rest of this, in light of the Thread content, is really cold.
    which makes your 1st comment about wishing Dave's quick recovery just so much gratuitous pablum.
    very cold.

  17. #42
    lurking nightrider LittleGinseng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    NE Florida
    My Bikes
    1987 Centurion Dave Scott Ironman Expert, 1987 Maruishi Professional, mid-80's Titan Exklusiv, 1981 Panasonic Sport, 1985 Club Fuji
    Posts
    298
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't believe it was the OP's intention to reopen the helmet/no helmet debate on this particular thread.

    I've never met Dave Moulton but I'm a fan of his work and his dedication to the sport we all enjoy so much. Glad you're still with us, Dave! Hope you're back to 100% real soon.
    "If there hadn't been women we'd still be squatting in a cave eating raw meat, because we made civilization in order to impress our girl friends. And they tolerated it and let us go ahead and play with our toys."Orson Wells

  18. #43
    ex frame builder
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    516
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    First let me thank everyone for the outpouring of good wishes and positive thoughts towards my recovery; I continue to improve every day.

    As for the whole helmet issue/debate; I am glad I just happened to have that inch of foam plastic between my head and the side of the vehicle when I hit. To me it is all clear and simple, drop an egg on the hard kitchen floor and it will break, guaranteed. Put an egg in a padded envelope and drop it on the floor and there is a possibility it may not break, or it may end up only cracked. Which incidentally is what happened to my head; it is slightly cracked.

    I started cycling in the 1950s in England when no one wore head protection even while racing with the exception of track riders. When I landed in the US in 1979 it seemed I had arrived among a nation of Freds, all wearing those God awful looking, mushroom shaped Bell helmets, with little dentist mirrors attached. And every one it seemed had a story to tell how their helmet saved their life.

    I rode all through the 1980s without a helmet; I didn’t see why I needed one. I was a skilled enough rider and I wasn’t planning on falling on my head. When I started back riding this year, I decided to wear one for the first time. I still wasn’t planning to fall on my head, but I could find no reason to not wear one.

    They had become accepted, even worn in the Tour de France. They actually keep your head cooler in summer; after all, they are made of the same material they use to make ice chests. But, most of all I did it as a concession to my wife who is a non-cyclist and was a little apprehensive about me riding again.

    Now I realize there is another huge reason to wear head protection. Traffic has increased tremendously in the last thirty years; automobiles have become easier to drive, with more and more protection for the driver. This has all led to a casual, sloppy attitude towards driving; no one cares about the welfare and safety of others around them anymore.

    I wish rather than promote the use of helmets I could change the attitude and driving skills of other road users. I believe that if every person was forced to ride a bicycle on the busy highways for a period it would make them a far better driver, but that’s not going to happen.
    Last edited by Dave Moulton; 12-11-06 at 05:25 AM.
    History, photos and tech articles on my website. Also check "Dave's Bike Blog."

  19. #44
    Back in black cydewaze's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Maryland
    My Bikes
    Trek OCLV, Scattante XLR, Jamis Dakar Expert, Alpinestars Al-Mega, Trek 9700
    Posts
    4,242
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Moulton
    I started cycling in the 1050s in England
    You, sir, look amazingly good for your age.

  20. #45
    ex frame builder
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    516
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cydewaze
    You, sir, look amazingly good for your age.
    Ah, you spotted my typo. I did too and corrected it just about the same time you posted. It sometimes seems like I started in 1050.
    History, photos and tech articles on my website. Also check "Dave's Bike Blog."

  21. #46
    3 seconds ColorChange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Chicago, NW burbs
    Posts
    2,936
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Cyclintom: You are irrational ... or worse. Luckily, I think any rational/sane person realizes wearing a helmet is a significant increase in safety.

  22. #47
    ROM 6:23 flipped4bikes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Coastal Maine
    My Bikes
    Specialized Tricross Comp, Lemond Tourmalet, Bridgestone MB-5
    Posts
    1,713
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Best wishes to Dave for a speedy recovery.

    [rant on]

    I always wear a helmet. I don't push it on anybody. I have enough personal experience to know that wearing one has saved me from more personal injury. Dave's blog does the same thing. There is nothing wrong with that. What I don't understand is why telling a-helmet-saving-one's-noggin'- story is viewed as safety nazi crusade?

    If you don't want to wear a helmet, fine. Just don't be a hater because others say a helmet was a factor in preventing serious harm.

    [rant off]
    Every time we let a vehicle pass there is a little bit of compromise. But compromise allows the city to function and allows cyclists to function in the city. The trick is not to eliminate compromise but to learn how to work safely within it.

    --Robert Hurst

  23. #48
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    2,413
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by flipped4bikes
    What I don't understand is why telling a-helmet-saving-one's-noggin'- story is viewed as safety nazi crusade?
    Indeed, and that wasn't the point. The point is as you can see here - that no one even considers the fact that Mr. Moulton wasn't watching traffic for clues that the driver was going to turn in front of him. Instead ALL safety is now about a helmet.

    What is at the top of EVERY safety paphlet these days? "Always wear your helmet".

    Well, we don't believe that wearing a helmet is going to hurt you, but statistics are pretty plain that if helmets are effective at all, it is only slightly.

    Instead of avoiding accidents "safety education" has now become how to mediate the effects of an accident.

    I don't know about you but I fell off my bicycle a lot. Perhaps I'm naturally clumsy but I've had my worst falls when I wasn't wearing a helmet and I never hit my head. In fact the only times I ever hit my head when riding motorcycles or bicycles was when I was wearing a helmet.

    Was that because of the weight or the size of helmet? Probably not. I think that it is probable that you fall differently when you're intent on protecting your head.

    Of course none of this counts in a collision with a motor vehicle since you don't have control. But then my argument is not against wearing a helmet but with the bicycle riders not paying proper attention while riding.

    And let's not pretend that isn't the case most of the time. I've watched bicyclists enough to see their inattentiveness often when it could have meant serious accidents if other road users hadn't compensated for the cyclists mistakes.

    And that is what we should be working on - not "always wear your helmet".

  24. #49
    genec genec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    san diego
    My Bikes
    custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
    Posts
    22,527
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cyclintom
    Of course it doesn't matter who is at fault when a cyclist is injured but the fact remains that you have about half the chance of being injured or killed on your bicycle as you do in your car and no one tells you that you should be wearing a helmet in your car where more than half of the fatalities are still from simple head injuries of the sort a helmet would mediate.
    Where did you get this statistic: "half the chance?"

    The statictics I have seen are based on the entire population... not just on cyclists, therefore they are really false when looking at the milage a regular cyclist racks up.

  25. #50
    OM boy cyclezen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Goleta CA
    My Bikes
    a bunch
    Posts
    3,011
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Moulton
    First let me thank everyone for the outpouring of good wishes and positive thoughts towards my recovery; I continue to improve every day.
    ...Traffic has increased tremendously in the last thirty years; automobiles have become easier to drive, with more and more protection for the driver. This has all led to a casual, sloppy attitude towards driving; no one cares about the welfare and safety of others around them anymore.

    I wish rather than promote the use of helmets I could change the attitude and driving skills of other road users. I believe that if every person was forced to ride a bicycle on the busy highways for a period it would make them a far better driver, but that’s not going to happen.
    So glad to read you are on the mend.
    aside from the all the fun and positive things that pop up here on BF, the 'exposure' to the injury and death incidents around the BF universe (which is obviously very broad) is a real bummer at times. We've had a rash of cycling related deaths and injuries in the Goleta/SB/Carpenteria Valley this past year, and its been truly disheartening to learn about them, the circumstances, and the inaction on the part of law enforcement and the judiciary. Way too many 'donut' opportunities...
    Not sure what the 'approach' can be, but some form of real 'activism' seems needed.
    At the root of it seems our (sheeple) unbridled willingness to turn our lives over to the increasing voraciousness of the infernal combustion machine. I really abhor where this country is headin...
    I'm not a total cycling 'Weathermen' or 'Bike Panther' yet, but it sure is hard not go that way...
    power to the people

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •