MattMuney

my dad has this condition and he loves cycling. It comes and goes for him but in the past year it has been pretty good for him. However, last march it was hurting him and he got some cortisone injections which really relieved the pain. He did relax his position on the road bike by raising the stem and that seemed to feel good for him. and he did eat his pride by buying a recumbent. But please, go for a more relaxed position on the road bike before buying a recumbent...you will be made fun of by elitist roadies.

TCR

I can't relax my position much more. I already have the bars level with the seat and I already get flack from the stuck up roadies. I can deal with the elitist roadies. I can't deal with not riding.

patentcad

Actually the failure rate for spinal fusion surgery is probably closer to 50%+. It very much depends on how good the diagnosis is.

Unfortunately I've become an expert on this. I had a neck fusion in 1999 (C6/7) that was a total success and a lumbar spine fusion in 2001(L5/S1) that didn't help my low back pain (separate from my neck issues) at all (I wound up on oxycontin for 3 years). I bagged the oxycontin two years ago when I decided that NOT riding was apparently not helping my chronic back pain either. Not in the least.

So I started riding again. At first I couldn't spin for 2 mins. straight. Gradually that got better. I have ridden my road bike 21,000 miles since April of 2005 - and now I find that the riding is what really helps my back feel better. It hurts all the time, but often not when I'm on the bike and often for many hours afterwards. And generally the endorphins from the riding help tremendously. No pain meds today (Advil once in a while, sometimes it can help). More importantly I'm very happy living with the pain - and I never thought that would be possible. The L5/S1 fusion didn't cause me further damage - my surgeon was very competent - and it's nearly 6 years later. My doctor thinks if I've ridden all those miles over nearly 6 years without MORE back pain I will hopefully not have complications.

I don't know what's wrong with my back. Medical science doesn't either. But I'm starting to believe that the original diagnosis (severly arthritic lumbar spine) was correct but every treatment failed. At the end of the day if that's the boat you're in you learn to live with it. And so far I have. But it hasn't been easy.

So surgery can work wonders - it did for my neck. But that was a low-neck operation, one that has a success rate that's more like 90%. It's not so great with low back procedures. And I wouldn't give up on chiropractic or ANY alternatives until you've tried them. TRY them. You can always have surgery later. The longer you wait the better handle you may have on your diagnosis and the better tha surgical options available to you may become. For any MD who thinks that chiropractors are witch doctors: when traditional Western medicine can't diagnose or treat you for YEARS, how do you think THAT appears to the patient? I was sliced, diced, jerked around beyond description and wound up on painkillers more addictive than heroin. So that wasn't so great. No hard feelings about traditional medicine but let's just say I've benefitted from its miracles and experienced its limitations as well.

Ultimately try everything. If your pain relief is 'psycosematic' who cares? As long as it doesn't HURT you. And nothing has more potential for that than back surgery. It's a double edged sword to be sure.

Good luck with your situation. But trust me on this: giving up cycling is NOT the answer. I'm glad you're still trying to ride.

Bergie

I had back pain at when I was 25 years old (I'm now 51.) The Orthopedic Surgeon at the time did an MRI and recommended doing PT before surgery. For 6 months I tried traction 3 times a week, spent several 2-3 day traction stints at the local Hospital, did every stretch and stength exercise known to man (at that time) used lumbar supports when sitting, driving, etc. was injected with some type of cortisone and still ended up having a double laminectomy at L4/5/S1. The pain down my leg was becoming increasingly unbearable. Not only did the doctor say I had the back of a 60 year old!! (Imagine that at age 25??) and I would be back in for a second surgery within 5 years. Not what I wanted to hear!!

Although I never really rode a bike much but did have an active MX, Skiing and Backpacking lifestyle while young, not to mention a hard physical job in a Power Plant. I was bummed and figured an active lifestyle was forever doomed. I was wrong!!!

A friend was a road cyclist and convinced me to buy a bike, ride some and see how I felt. My PT said to stay away as the "hunched over" position would not be in my back's best interest. That was 26 years ago. And guess what? I never went back and had another surgery!! I still ski hard many times a year, hike, ride dirt bikes, ride centuries and rarely have much problem. Granted, I have had times where Motrin was my friend, but for the most part it was successful. Maybe I was one of the lucky ones but I believe it was due to three things:

1) Road cycling about 3000 miles a year for 26 years. I never thought I would or could do it. This seemed to help my back, not hurt it. Whether due to endorphins, increased blood flow to damaged areas or luck.

2) Finding a good Chiropractor! Continued spine maintenance seemd to keep me healthy and enabled me to continue to a normal lifestyle.

3) Do not become sedentary! The more I lay or sit around, the more uncomfortable I become. I find staying active has helped me greatly. Keep stretching and strengthen your core muscle groups.

Sorry for the long response, but there is hope! Cover all the bases since there seems to be more options than ever for spinal problems.

DrPete 

Just a note of caution: "Back Pain" is a pretty huge blanket term. There are a LOT of diagnoses and presentations, and these vary a lot from person to person, so work with the doc who's treating you. Without a whole lot more details, none of us can really make specific recommendations about riding/not riding/etc.

Chisolm

I have a herniated disc in my lower back and was seriously considering surgery a couple of years ago. I went in for the spinal shots as a last ditch procedure and they actually helped relieve the pain (I got three shots over approximately 6 months). Once the pain was manageable I was able to start a stretching and exercise routine that slowly helped my back (lots of crunches and core exercises coupled with hamstring stretches).

A couple of weeks ago NPR did a piece on back surgeries and they interviewed a few surgeons and doctors and highlighted an article that was recently published in a medical journal. The upshot of the segment was that surgery helps relieve the pain more quickly than other methods, but as a long range fix it isn't much different than less intrusive methods. The researchers that were interviewed looked at two groups of people suffering from disc problems: those who opted for surgery and those who didn't. Two months after surgery there was a significant difference in the pain between the groups, but two years after the procedure there was not a significant difference in pain or mobility between the groups.

My back is still sore if I do something stupid, but it is much better overall. I agree that a recumbent might not be the best way to go. My doctor suggested sitting down only when it is absolutely necessary and a day spent sitting in a chair is much harder on my back than a day on the bike.

Good Luck! This type of pain really sucks the life out of a person.

patentcad

I would agree, every single case is different. I can only tell you that unless your cycling seems to be directly making your condition worse, the exercise does have many benefits that you'll lose if you suspend it completely. In my case I'm much better off ridings since not riding did nothing but make me mentally miserable in addition to the physical pain.

BoSoxYacht

I also have Herniated Discs, but have not had surgery. When I hurt my back(6/1/03) I couldn't ride for about 30 months.

At 1st My doctor diagnosed the problem as muscle spasms. I was given Soma + Lortab, told to take it e-z for a while and come back if it still hurts when all my pills are gone. I continued to work In great pain (and stoned off my butt ). this went on for 5 months.

Then somebody requested an MRI. It was suddenly obvious why I was in so much pain. It was like the didn't beleive me before.

I went through the shots, changed the way I worked, and took lots of painkillers for the next 2 years.

In December of 2005, I tried cycling again, and was very pleased to find that it helped my back( less pain ) sometimes I suffer from cramps in my right leg, and my right foot feels like it's asleep, but mostly free of pain.

Ritterview

A disc bulge at L4-5 with a tear is a normal finding. If everyone at your high school class reunion had an MRI, the majority would have similar findings, and your MRI could not be identified as being any more likely to produce back pain. There is no evidence that restriction of activity is helpful (ask your doctor to show you the study that demonstrates it). Cortisone (epidural steroid) injections are helpful for leg pain, but not for back pain. Yes the disc is likely productive of pain, and you may have pain that hinders your cycling. But there is zero, zilch evidence that restriction of cycling, or any activity would be helpful for you. Athletes with mulit-million dollar futures and worse disks than yours are put back into action, with a lot more going on than cycling.

Stanford Freshman Brook Lopez had a lumbar discectomy in August. How is he doing? Lets roll the tape:

Stanford Up-Ends No. 25 USC, 65-50

Lopez blocks school-record 12 shots; scores 18 points.

Jan. 26, 2007


STANFORD, Calif. (AP) -Brook Lopez blocked a school-record 12 shots to go along with 18 points and 11 rebounds, helping Stanford spoil No. 25 Southern California's first game as a ranked team in five years with a 65-50 victory Thursday night.

Lopez dominated the inside for the Cardinal (13-5, 5-3 Pac-10) and overwhelmed the Trojans, scoring six points and blocking three shots during a 12-0 run that put the Cardinal up 22 midway through the second half.

The triple-double was the first since at least 1985 for the Cardinal.

BoSoxYacht

These results are not typical(Brock Lopez is an NCAA Div I-A athelete), he has access to a lot of treatment that many of us do not, and an 18 year old's back will likely heal faster than TCR's.

BladeGeek

Correct. If the nerve is compressed surgery is the definitive treatment. If the disk is herniated on one side only a hemidiscectomy can be done with a short recovery time. No spinal fusion is needed in that case. It is very rare to have a single disc space fused for a herniated disc.

TCR

You sound like you know what your talking about. What is your medical background? If a disc bulge at at L4-5 with a tear is a "normal finding" then what is causing the pain and how is it remedied? Cycling definitely worsens the condition. If I simply "get put back into action", go ride my bike, I have serious pain for the next 4 or 5 days.

BladeGeek

There is nothing normal about a herniated disc. Nor do the just "pop back in". If the condition continues the disc can compress a nerve then you will at a minimum have right or left leg pain…at worst you will have leg numbness. I think that Ritter's post is proclaiming the fact after a discectomy. Which in that case he is right.

BassoCoral

When I was about 26, I herniated two discs in my lower back. I had pretty bad back pain and shooting leg pain. Walking hurt, and sleeping was often hard because of the pain. I was lucky enough to get hooked up with a great neurosurgeon with a national rep. He said he could fix it with a laminectomy but he would rather I wait to see if it would get better.

I did six months or a year on anti-inflamitants and then went back to cycling. My ususal ride is a 60cm road bike, but I went to a 56cm with a long seatpost, short stem, and flat bars. Looked bizzare, but it got me upright. Set it up with a triple so I would never have to mash harder than I was comfortable with. Within a couple months I was back to 50-75 mile rides on that thing. I kept at it for a year and got back on a 60cm with an aggressive set-up and did just fine.

I guess some times you just get lucky. I know I did. I would also say I had five friends who also herniated discs around the same time. They were all older than me (ranging from late 30s to late 50s). My neuro guy did laminectomies on all five of them, and they all got total relief after a very brief recovery period. We must be a lucky group, but I think it doesn't hurt to find a fantastic physician with a national rep if you can.

krazyderek

I have 2 "mild" herniated disc's. Of course the pain in my back is far from mild, but i rarely feel any pain running down the back of my legs, and i have complete motor control so the doctor said it's considered mild. It took me 4 months of doctor's telling me i had tight muscles before i finaly could get a CT scan and we discovered the 2 herniated disc's in my back L4-5, and S1-L5. The pain started the last week of july, and here i am still not much better off. After meeting with a neuro sergeon they said operating on someone that's 23 can actually cause more damage then good. He still insisted on a MRI to get a better picture of what's going on in my back and just to rule out any tumors or arthritis in the spine. But the verdict is still basically take it easy for a year or two and things should go back to normal. I sit in school 7 hours a day in horrible low back chairs, i try to stand as much as possible in the back of the class but it's honestly harder then biking.

My doctor and physiotherapist both told me that sitting, and static positions like sitting would be bad(like laying in bed for the next 2 years), so i'm still biking sitting up straight ridding with no hands on the rollers, and it helps, but sitting in school, in my car, at my computer all make my back pain worse. Things like crunch's, bending over to put on my pants, or socks, or tie my shoe's are all harder then a 20 minute lactate threshold interval on my bike.

It's a crappy situation for sure, but i'm going to keep trying to bike with my handle bars flipped up more that 6" higher then they were when i was pain free and racing.


That's putting it lightly. If you try and "be a man" about a herniated disk and just ignore the dagger in your spin, snapping sensations in your back, and get real aero on the bike and push on, you'll only make things worse. As you flex your spine you push all the fluid in your disc (known as the nucleus) to the rear where the tear or bulge is. The added pressure on the anular fibers that make up the disc wall will cause more pain, and make the tear bigger allowing more of your disk to bulg out into your spinal colum, and then proceed to push against one or more nerve roots. Keep pushing hard on those pedals for another couple of days and ignoring the pain and you'll start getting tight sharp pains running down the back of your buttocks, all the way to the back of your knee. Then you'll start slowing down cause the pain is to much, and if you push on even more thinking "i'll just ride out the pain" you'll lose near complete motor control in your legs, usualy starting with your big toe, and ankle. By now you've caused enough damage to your disc that you won't be doing much of anything but taking pain killers (by the handfull) to keep off the headach's from all the pain.

lennyk

this is a very good point, for every person saying great things about some procedure or doctor who did work on them there will be others who have not been satisfied for some other reason and cursing the doc. But every patient's case can be different from another so the success may be different.

Corsaire

Welcome to my world, except for the pain. I have a herniated disc, the last cartilage before the coccyx.
I had a MRI done in March 2006 followed by the AccuSpina treatment (the pulling table), like 22 sessions of it. I got mixed results.
I have to stretch ALL the time, before and after cycling. This injury won't let me reach that NEXT level, technically I'm a A club rider, but when I start to push hard and harder, my sciatica get irritated bringing
my surrounding muscles into spasms making me slow down and making even the slightest hill a real struggle.
Some days can be good, almost like is not there, but not always.

Whatever you do, don't go for surgery! Find a good chiro and take it from there.
Also learn to stretch your back properly, specially the lower back and surrounding
muscles, like the iliotibial band, etc, etc. A good chiro and or therapist should tell you
which exercises are good to target certain tight muscles.

Corsaire

BoSoxYacht

Almost everything you said had my head nodding, until you wrote "Find a good chiro and take it from there."


Most Chiropractors are not Doctors, and should not be treated/respected like doctors(unless you mean Witch Doctors). Please do not confuse the two.

induray2

I am one too that suffers fm degenrative disc at 3 levels . Yesterday I got back fm the ortho surgeon and reviewed my case. He said my L5 was fuse to my pelvis ,a congenital defect.So I am really riding on 4 lumbar vertebrae discs. f course that puts more weight on the remaining discs. He did not suggest surgery but if I do in the future it won't be pretty. I have been teaching spinning classes and riding as well with no major problem so far. But standing up is becoming a pain on my left leg (radiculopathy). He prescribed me mobic(meloxicam) 7.5 mg, lets see if this will help. This is my second day using it but it takes a while for it to accumulate in your body. Wish me luck. Next thing is the epidural cortisone injections then surgery. I am 46 yrs old and it is psyching me out! trying no to get me depressed but it is difficult).

Lets keep this thread open and communicate on a regular basis. I rather chat on this forum about this issue coupled with cycling than in a medical forum

iab

Please no black and white statements. In my personal experience, the chiro caused more pain, surgery was the magic bullet. I will never forget waking up from the anesthesia, realizing I was lying flat and in no pain. I couldn't believe it.

Havs

+1. As was mentioned many times previously in this post, check into the chiropractors as thoroughly as you would in looking for a reputable surgeon. I work with someone who's sister went to a chiro; she still has lingering neck problems 2 years later that were caused by the treatments. Another patient in this area had a stroke after chiro treatment. The surgeon that performed my microdisc procedure also referred me to a chiro, but I decided not to go. Granted, my case was complicated with the post op infection, but each person's results could vary greatly. I would just re emphasize to seek out several opinions, ask friends, family, do online research, etc to find the best range of options and information about your particular case.

Corsaire

There are Chiros and THERE ARE Chiros ! What I mean is that after having had my share of chiros over the years I finally found one who, as you would say, is the real deal. I can't praise my current chiro
enough, he's very caring and has that healing touch. Evrytime I go for an adjustnmet I come out of his office feeling "in line", plus he takes the time to stretch me and show me which muscles I have tight and how to get them loose, so far he's been a blessing in my life, I swear it God.
All the others chiros I had in the past, I could tell it was just a matter of getting me "in & out" of his office asap.
You need to find a real CHIRO, whether you call them doctors or not, that's not the point, point is Chiropractic works, even Lance swears by his. It might not work for
everybody, but for what I have is making a difference. Perhaps, someone with in a worse case scenario might need the next level, a spine doctor/surgeon, whatever, but that's for you to find out.My two cents.

Corsaire

Ritterview

(1) The disk doesn't know if it is in an athlete or a mortal. The superb conditioning the athlete's heart, lungs and muscles receive is not shared by the disk. (2) There is no effective specific treatment for disk problems for which Brook to have access. (3) The disk heals slowly for both 18 year olds and 40 year olds. Disk herniation and disk pain is a condition of the young, not the old. Youth provides no protection.

The point is, that future lottery picks do not have their activity restricted to somehow prevent further problems. As soon as they are up to it, they are sent back in. The magnitude of the energies to the disk involved in Div. 1 basketball must dwarf that of cycling. If cycling hurts, well, then that makes it tougher, but there is no evidence that it is doing any harm.

DrPete 

While I'll be the first to say that MD's and chiropractors often have a lot of conflict, all human beings should be treated/respected the same way. I'm hoping that people respect me for my competence, professionalism, and character, not the letters dangling off my name.

BoSoxYacht

Would you respect a Mechanic that fixes the same problem on your car every week? No, you would say he was incompetent.