Tappets

hey everybody,

what is this 'float' that i'm reading about on various threads and that i read about with all the pedal product descriptions, and why is it a good thing? i see a lot about degrees of float and dialing float in.

can someone explain for my not-so-all-knowing-mind?

thanks!

superdex

float is the amount of twisting play your foot has before you engage the release mechanism. The extremes are zero float, where any twisting of your ankle side-to-side engages the release spring, to Speedplay pedals, which have up to 15 degrees (or more?) of float. Speedplay's claim is their non-centering float (no spring action pushing you back to center) is better, but YMMV. The out-of-the box float for Look cleats is 6 degrees (IIRC)

Tappets

ok, great response. thanks superdex!

i feel smarter already!

kmac27

So whats the added advantage of float?

waterrockets 

When you get out of the saddle, you need varying cleat angles as the bike swings beneath you. Also, some people need to move their foot around to avoid knee irritation. Once I got used to it, I found it much more comfortable than fixed. Also, there is no power loss with float...

Dubbayoo

Having your foot stuck at an unnatural angle can be hard on your knees. To give an extreme example try walking pigeon toed if your feet naturally point outward, or vice versa.

Most people don't need float if their cleats are properly aligned. If you have float in the pedal you have room for error in setting up the cleat. An alternative is have a shop set them up for you with a Fit Kit. You really should do this your first time out regardless. With float you can just eyeball it and be good enough.

Trackies often lock out the float, but they don't sway the bike when sprinting as much as roadies do.

johnny99

Float helps protect you from injury if poor bike fit or poor pedalling technique is causing your ankles and/or knees to wobble with each pedal stroke. If you have good fit and technique, then you do not need float.

waterrockets 

Think carefully about what happens when you swing the bike out of the saddle.

For seated riding, I agree, but I still prefer float. It hurts nothing, and if I happen to lose my form because I ride myself into a pile of crap, why should my knees suffer because I can't pedal properly for that last 5 miles?

Mach42

Easier on the knees, particularly when you don't have your cleats set up exactly right for you, which unless you are very lucky or have a very good fitter, won't be. Your feet have some leeway to position themselves in the best position within the range of float.

elgalad

Pretty much all of the guys I race with have Look pedals with the 9 degrees of float option.

Like WR said - why run the risk of knee injury for absolutely zero benefit?

prendrefeu

Speedplay has 15 degrees of float, but that is not the 'max' available by a pedal system. As far as I know, the max is 20 degrees. Bebop pedals run 20° of unencumbered float.

Bob Dopolina 

I once saw some test footage of a rider, seated, pedalling. They put the reflective dots on him and filmed him from behind and fed the info into a computer.

As the leg extended the heel tracked straight, there was a slight movement outwards at the bottom of the stroke (full extension) and the heel tracked this way during the upstroke. The heel kicked back in near the top of the stoke.

The study indicated that there was a natural movement of the heel outwards during a certain phase of the pedal stroke. It is more pronounced in some riders that others (I think this had to do with femoral development).

Conclusion: A bit of float would take the lateral stress off the knee for certain phases of the pedal stroke. This would allow the patella to track properly and lessen the likelihood of injury.

NOTE: The range of float quoted is the complete range. If it says 6 degrees it means 3 to the inside and 3 to the outside.

roadwarrior

I've been doing it since Look invented the clipless pedal without problems. But I've always had people to help set up my bikes, cleats, etc...I've always ridden fixed.

I have shims that straighten out my leg so the need to move in and out goes away. Pretty simply, you are trying to straighten your leg like you would walking. But with a bike shoe you don't have the flexibility like you would with a flexible sole walking or running shoe. So the movement goes to your knee and hip...

Honestly, at an average of about 8,500 miles a year for the last few years, with a lot more than that back in the racing days, I've never had an issue. My cleats and shoes have always been set properly. My toes dont' numb up either, and common complaint.

Even in the toe clip days, they were set up...no float there...

For what it's worth...

waterrockets 

Yeah, I'm not saying everyone would have problems with fixed cleats. I raced in them for several years, toe clips too. Still, if you think about getting the perfect fitting, so your feet are not one arc-second in the wrong direction, the moment you get out of the saddle and lean the bike your ideal angle changes. Taken to the extreme, if you laid your bike down flat, you'd need a 90-degree cleat angle, so between upright and flat, the ideal cleat angle varies.

superslomo

For my part, having float made the difference between aching knees, and non-aching knees. Once I switched to pedals with some lowish resistance float, I definitely felt strange at first (feels less locked in place I guess) but wouldn't go back at this point.

Full disclosure: I like MTB pedals/shoes here in the city, as there is so much stop and go around me that the ease of entry is a big plus... however, there isn't much in the way of aligning/shimming of MTB cleats, so the float kind of balances out that situation.

umd

It is important to note that Speedplay Zeros are adjustable and can be set anywhere between 15 degrees or zero, and can be zeroed anywhere within that 15 degrees as well.

Al1943

Speedplay X series have 28 degree float, just right. You can release them at just about any angle though.
https://www.speedplay.com/index.cfm?f...on=home.xspecs

Al

kmac27

How do you adjust float? Is there a screw you adjust to tighten or loosen it? Can you fiddle with it on your own time rather than have the lbs do it? They charge 60 bucks for it.

waterrockets 

Yes, you can DIY. For what pedal system?

substructure

Let me ask as question that may sound dumb. Can a dominant leg cause knee problems in the weaker leg? What I mean is, that if your cleat position is off on the dominant leg, can your body/position adjust and therefore cause pain in the weaker leg's knee?

be gentle.

San Rensho 

Once you try black (cleats, no float) you'll never go back.

umd

johnny99

The Specialized shim system works with any kind of cleats.

sfrider 

Keeps your pedals from sinking.

You asked.

Bob Dopolina 

Not a dumb question at all! Any imbalance can cause your body to compensate and this can cause problems. It is interesting to note that if you did leg presses only with your right leg, you would still get 50% or the strength gains you got in your right leg in your left leg!
Your body wants to be balanced (although it is in ever so few people). If the dominant leg is capable of handling bigger loads that the weaker leg, then this could lead to issues.

I always recommend using the off-season to do weight workouts that address these kinds of imbalances. others include the ratio between hamstring and guad strength. many riders actually have weaker hamstrings in proportion to their massive guads.

If you are having these kinds of issues, seek out a physio geek and let them help you out. They live for stuff like this.