RLHawk

Warning, this is an academic question.

There are lots of threads on this forum describing how one bike may have "twitchy" handling compared to another, or how one frame material can be "plusher" than another, etc... For the sake of my question, I am lumping all those qualities into "ride".

How does one become education on "ride" characteristics and know what is right for them?

Are there "bike appreciation" classes? Someplace one can go and ride different bikes and have an experienced expert describe the expected "ride" characteristics and what contributes to them.

Does a venue like this exist, or is there some other way to gain this knowledge (short of years of experience and/or annoying the lbs for dozens of test rides)?

botto 

as far as i know, no.

fwiw - this is not the best place to get an idea about how a bike "rides". comments like "twitchy", "rides like it's on rails", "responsive", etc falls flat when you take into account the experience, or lack there of, that the majority of posters here.

RLHawk

So its all just one gigantic crap shoot? You drop a bundle of money hopping you get a bike with the right "ride", without ever being able to know how to judge what the right "ride" is.

SpongeDad

There might be some generalizations for things like trail or wheelbase, which are a bit more objective.

But I think the only way to sort through the subjective fog is to visit a few local bike stores (LBS) and test ride the bikes yourself. One rider's "carbon fiber feels dead" is another person's "like riding on glass; is it twitchy or responsive? Add to that the complexity that there is no standardized Ti, CF, Al or Fe tubing and the comparisons can get pretty meaningless pretty fast.

botto 

nope. you can: 1. do some reading/research, 2. "years of experience", 3. "and/or annoying the lbs for dozens of test rides".

michaelmc

Yeah, pretty much. You get a bike and you like it or not. If the latter, sell and repeat until you find the former. You can tell some things about a bike's potential ride from its geometry (wheelbase, head tube angle, stem length, and fork rake and trail all influence the speed of handling), but what you like and want you just have to figure out, or you can make do with what you have (and acclimatisation is certainly a big factor in how much you like what you have). I love my new Fuji. Is it my Platonic ideal of a bicycle and in bicycle ride and handling? Probably not, but I got it via a team discount, so the price tag worked, and it's certainly adequate or more in terms of componentry and ride.

More to the point, I agree with Botto that the internet is about the worst place to get information about bike "ride" for much the same reasons that Botto pointed out. Not because some people here don't have "enough miles under the belt" so to speak, but because people here talk about all sorts of bikes as if there is some real hierarchy of bike ride and quality and use descriptors in wildly varied ways (i.e. what is "twitchy" to one is not to another). In reality, the given ride of many bikes will be approximately equivalent, some people will "perceive" nonexistent differences, and what works for one may not work for another. So just ride. If you're going to buy a bike, ride lots of them for as long as the shops will let you.

If you like it, it's the right ride.

timmyquest

I also have to wonder, at our experience levels (the most of us that is)...if it matters at all. I'd guess it doesn't...

BillyD

Not at all.

But your research WILL require patience and salesman resistance.

You're going to have to do a lot of test riding in a lot of shops, trying out the four major bike materials before you can make your own semi-educated guess.

Regarding the four major bike frame materials, in general steel and titanium offer the more comfortable riding qualities, whereas aluminum and carbon fiber offer more speed and responsiveness. That is IN GENERAL. (This statement intended to hopefully diffuse distracting arguments and disagreements in this thread.)

Test ride them all and make up your own mind, then come back here and we'll argue . . . . I mean discuss it with you some more.

botto 

correct (for the most part).

NuBiker

Well I no expert but the bicycling issue reviewing the 2007 road bikes gives you an idea of how the bike will ride and what it is designed for. Not a direct answer to your question but gives you idea of what you expect. for example "plush" ride or "enthusiast" or "race" level. Accounting also to the material can shed a light on properties of the bike.
What I know from what I've read (which is not much) depending on the angle of your fork you will get a more or less twitchy bike; also concerning geometry, compact tend to be stiffer due to the material properties compared to regular geometry of the same material; a longer chain tube will give you a more comfy/plush ride; the front head tube will determine your position while riding a longer one will mean more comfy but less aerodynamic.
I hope I answered part of your question and what to look for when starting your comparison. I am sure a lot of people here will continue and put you on the right track.

Carbonfiberboy 

My experience is that "ride" is not terribly important until you acquire a lot of experience and more importantly, the usual subjective preferences. By far the most important thing is: does the bike's design and material put your pedal power into the road? Does the bike accelerate? Do you love the way the bike accelerates? Does that feel good? You can figure that out on a test ride pretty easily. Ride over some bumps or broken pavement. Do you like the feel of that or is it irritating? Again, pretty easy to tell.

San Rensho 

In general, ride is determined almost exclusively by head tube angle. Everything alse being the same, the steeper the head tube angle, the quicker the bike will turn. Terms like "twitchy" are usually used by people who are used to a more relaxed HT angle and find they can't control a bike with a steeper HT angle.

Also terms like "rides on rails" really mean little or nothing. My road bike, with a fairly steep HT angle, "rides on rails" just like my Raliegh three speed which has a much more shallow HT angle.

If you are just starting to ride, I would say stay towards a shallow HT angle bike.

old and new

Since you ask the question and ARE new,it's unlikely that little short of riding,not takin' a spin 'round the LBS parking lot will really teach you. You may not nail the "perfect bike",you will avoid getting a "wrong" bike by getting the right size, avoiding outlandish approaches to size,frame design,too long or short a stem to suit such a bike for example. Stay fairly nuetral, a happy medium approach works best for those who don't know, you don't and won't 'till you've ridden a specific bike over an extended period of time and under at least somewhat adverse conditions. Reading may keep you from being mis-guided,it can also steer you wrong IF you try to stray from the norm too much on account of an indidual('s) more specific theory based on twitcyness or noodlyness or what the fastest sprinters use,just to sight a few examples.San Rensho, I LOVE that "ride on rails", love to hate it.Like "the bike disappears from under ya"

Revtor

Chances are if you're new to this, then any road bike you get will feel harsh and twitchy at first. You have to get used to the riding position, and how the bike rides to make any meaningful comparison. Dont get caught into comparing half degrees of head tube angle, and stuff like that.. You have to actually ride. You feel with your hands and arse, not numbers afterall.
MFR's divide their bike lines (generally) into comfort, recreational, and race bikes. If you really want to feel the difference in ride, I suggest you test ride bikes from all of these categories, feeling the difference between race bikes will be a lot more subtle unless you have a feel for this type of bike already.
Spend a few minutes on different types of bikes (try a MTB too) and you will understand why race bikes are not labeled comfort bikes, and youll see why the majority of bikes sold are somewhere in the middle.

also.. going to wider tires which can be ridden at lower pressures will smooth the ride out immensely over narrow, super high pressure race tires. Seat choice obviously makes a difference, as does general riding posture. If it's your first roadbike, I suggest getting an adjustable stem so you can ease into the hunched over posture.

have fun, let us know how you get on..

~Steve

RLHawk

Thank you all for the wonderful responses.

I am not actually looking to buy a new bike. (Well, I am always looking, but don't plan on making a purchase.) Remember my warning, this is only an academic question.

I would like to consider myself a "sophomore" cycler. Enough experience to feel comfortable on my road bike in a variety of conditions, but not enough to tell you what kind of "ride" it has.

A lot of posts make the argument that understanding "ride" takes "miles under the belt". But is that enough? If all those miles are on the same bike (or different bikes with the same "ride"), then how can you possible distinguish between "ride" qualities. If you only know how a "twitchy" "harsh" steel bike rides, then maybe it just seams "normal".

So far my take aways from are: 1) "ride" is very subjective, 2) there is no way around riding lots of bikes for lots of miles, 3) it may not matter that much anyway

VT Biker

I might also add that if you are like many posters on this board and will ride it at most for 30 to 40 miles max for enjoyment only, ride quality will not really make much of a difference in your enjoyment for the ride.

Now - FIT will make a difference, as if this is not proper, you will notice it even on a 10 mile ride.

oilman_15106

One of the great things about cycling and bikes is that there is no normal. Each rider may give a different view of how a bike "rides". What do you like/dislike about your current ride? Are your hands or feet numb after a long ride. Do you feel like you've been tossed in a blender after a ride, feel every bump in the road? Ride quality does matter and once you determine what you want, the sport will be more enjoyable.

RLHawk

I will admit that I don't race, and my typical ride is 30 to 40 miles (commute is 26 miles one way), but I also do the occasional century and try to fit in a 40-60 mile ride in on the weekends. (Don't forget take away 3: it may not matter that much anyway.)

But who knows, maybe if I had a bike with the right "ride" I regularly be putting in 60+ mile rides.

yogi13

You'd probably keep on doing the rides you've been doing...but enjoy them more.

mezza

The general rule is -

The bike material you ride - "Like its on rails"

The bike material you don't ride - "Twitchy s**t"

That clears up that issue!!

VT Biker

My bike rides like its on rails.

It is my legs however ride as if they were made of jello.

roadwarrior

Now money's in the equation.

No limit, the world is your oyster.

Under a grand, you are not looking at four frame materials.

More expensive frames, regardless of their composition have more engineering in them for the intention of the frame. Club rider frames have more compliance, especially in the rear. Racing bikes have a totally different setup. Trek 1000's, for example, have little comfort built into them, especially in the seat stay area. They don't flex much. On a bumpy road, the bike will hop a bit. It's built for a real casual rider (or a person on a tight budget) who wants a road bike.
Compare to the seat stays on a Synpase (Sport bike at a bit over a grand). Much more plush and will absorb vibration. More expensive, and they build three more bikes above that.

Selling a bike:

How much do you want to spend? Over a grand gets you a lot more frame.

How will you be using the bike? Triathlons, casual club riding, aggressive riding with friends. These can all have different solutions.

The answers to those questions (especially #1) will determine the frame.

I also like to show buyers bikes/framesets from which the mfg builds many bikes. Like, for example the OCR carbon...you can get a more economical bike for about $1,900, but someone else can get that same frame with different components for over $4 grand.

RLHawk

Although I am not shopping for a bike, roadwarrior raises a good point; "money's in the equation." Another big factor for me is durability. I am ROUGH on my stuff. My current bike has gone down a few times; cut off by a car, inattentive riding resulting in a lockup and bail, wet conditions plus oblique railroad tracks (still recovering from that one). In addition, I lean it up against stuff, ride in cold/wet/snowy/salty conditions, and regularly haul it around in the trunk of my car.

I have arbitrarily set a $3k price limit for my next purchase, but chances are good that I will not get close to that limit. Considering how rough I am on my stuff, and I don't race, I see no point on getting top end components that I don't need and will be expensive to fix/replace. Also, steel has been my material of choice. On way I may reach (and probably pass) my price limit is a Ti frame. Considering my concerns on durability and riding in all conditions, Ti may be worth the investment. In a few years, when/if, the price drops a bit, another option may be a frame made from new Reynolds 953 alloy.

nostromo

I'm still very new at riding a 'real' road bike and purchased one last October after being on this forum for a few months (initially in the Mountain Bike section).

The more I read the more confused I got. Fortunately I have a friend at work that used to race (older Cannondale CAAD bike) who gave me good advice; forget the name, frame material or components. As a first time rider be more concerned about a proper fitting.

He was right. I got the fitting at a pro shop and told them my price limit ($2000). They found me an aluminum frame to my measurements and put in a carbon fork, bars and seat post.

I'm still getting used to the bike. Some rides are pretty ache free, others are not that fun, and this is on the same bike. On some rides I seem to carve up my route in nothing flat, on others I struggle (especially with strong headwinds) and my legs get fried before I'm done half my route. Sometimes I finish a ride with a numb rear, numb hands and cramped feet, at other times I can't believe I did the whole thing and it's time to pack up.

I know at one point I was starting to get really hung up on which bike brand I'd end up with. But having had some experience riding consistently now, when I see other riders zoom the other way, I can't even tell what they're riding, only that they're going fast and what their posture is on the bike. It could be called BRICK for all I know and be made of cement.

Personally I just don't have enough experience to know if I could even tell the difference between a bike of another material or even different component types.

All I know is I really like my bike. It's light, responsive, stops great, gear changes are fast and smooth and I've hit some nice speeds with little effort. Maybe in a few years I'll understand much more and be able to select a frame and components that will make a difference to my riding.