biffstephens

I have ridden quite a few miles this year...I can ride a century in a heart beat...I have done 7 so far...BUT I am not gaining the speed I want to....I can suffer with the best of of them (or at least I thing I can) but I feel my threshold has dropped....I need that back....

Intervals? I have heard that is what I need? How, when, and why?

Can anyone provide some insight...

Thanks

ed073

how many km's a week are you riding, regardless of intensity? Include race km's.

biffstephens

I think this is where I messed up. Here is what I WAS thinking....last year I need to start riding more....I was heavy and I was missing it. So during the winter I hit the trainer a lot and got some cold weather gear and did some riding. I lost about 80 pounds which pretty much brought me back to my riding weight a few years ago....maybe slightly less. I was focused on miles...the more miles I put in the better...I was almost obsessed with it (big mistake I think). So that is what I did....I just got out and rode...

My first goal is comming up this weekend. Back to back centuries, Sat and Sun....I "thought" I was going to be able to make my other goal of doing them both in under 5 hours but I don't think I can make that one. The key is staying with the pack and I have tried lately and I lack just a bit of staying there....throw a few hill in there and I drop off the back....

The miles are no big deal really but the speed I can not maintain...so I figured after this weekend I will change my training plan...

I started logging miles April 1st. of this year. For April I did 760 miles (1223k) and for May I did 1011 miles (1627k)

I don't race I just like to ride with my group and go fast...I just like to ride...So my girlfriend is doing an Ironman this year and she has a trainer and he has her doing all the weird stuff.....hill repets and riding for an hour and a certain HR or whatever and it seems to be working....I am thinking this is what I need...not completely sure where to start...

ratebeer

That's an incredible story. Lost 80 pounds in three months to get close to riding back to back sub five hour centuries.

biffstephens

LOL the 80 pounds was since September of last year....sorry for the misconception...apparently my goals were not realistic but I did not run them by anyone either....I will make the 2 rides...not not in the time limit...

lvleph

I have been wondering about intervals myself. I am probably the worst hill climber on the planet, and I want to change that. I just don't even know where to look to find out more about how I should be training.

I want two things; climb better, and endurance.

Revtor

intervals are basically this- ride for a few minutes at a pace that really hurts, then back off and recover for a few minutes, then do it again. and again.. and again.

You should be really methodical about times/distances/speeds/heart rates/gearing, etc if you want to get the most out of them. The more you plan it out the more you can tailor the workout to what you want to get out of it. There are guides all over the web and I'm sure some riders will gladly share their plans with you.

Perhaps join your woman on her training ridesand see how she goes about it?

great story btw, hats off to you!
~Steve

kwrides

OK, so I know bicycling isn't the bible of training or anything, but check out these simple interval ideas from Coach Chris. It's a good intro to intervals, but not anywhere near a full plan:
https://www.bicycling.com/article/1,6...5997-1,00.html

oh, and CONGRATS for losing 80lbs!

merlinextraligh

there are different types of intervals that work on different parts of the power producing system. For the type of rides you've set as goals, I'd start working on raising my lactate threshold power. You do this with long intervals at lactate threshold. Determine your LT heart rate, and then ride at that HR for 5 minutes, rest, repeat 5 times. Gradually lengthen them until you can get up to a total of an hour at LT (i.e. 6x10 minutes, 3x20, 2x 30).

For top speed, and anerobic power, you can work on shorter maximal effort intervals, i.e. 1 minute all out.

You might try one day of LT intervals (also called steady states) and one day of 1 minute intervals, mixed in with some endurance paced rides, and a couple of days off or just recovery rides.

waterrockets 

My "main" interval workout is a 1-minute interval with a 3-4 minute VERY EASY recovery. The 1 minute interval consists of going as hard as you can for a minute -- not necessarily covering as much real estate as possible (a distinction I only recently realized). So, don't go for efficiency or pacing yourself for a big leap at the end. Go out hard and don't let up. They hurt bad.

I also do 4-minute intervals with a shorter recovery period (mine are hill repeats). These have to be more paced, but should be very very tough.

Throw in some 8-minute intervals and some 20 minute intervals, on alternating weeks, and you're pretty much set.

There are interval pyramids, which are a good challenge: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, or one I like to do too: 1, 1, 2, 5, 2, 1, 1 (turns out to be higher quality than a straight pyramid).

You can also do short recovery or 1-on/1-off intervals (sadistic), but those aren't as efficient at training your threshold as full recovery -- but they do train your recovery, which is important.

Don't forget to do sprints! 200m as explosively as you can, with a 5-minute recovery. When I say explosive, I mean like Paris Hilton is chasing you explosive. Try to break your chain, rip the cleats off your shoes, bend your handlebars, just outrun the skank.

biffstephens

Ok I am convinced.....actually I was convinced before....not a plan...

It seems to be limitless as far as options go when it comes to intervials....I do want to climb better so maybe I will start with a climbing intervial....I also would like to be able to pull longer when on rides....so I will try to find something that will work with that...

How many times a week? I ride on Mon and Wed each week with groups....I try to get some kind of organized ride on the weekends as well...is this something I can do on Tuesday and Thursdays or do I need to do it 3 times a week?

NoGaBiker

I guess I've read funnier things on the net, but nothing comes to mind right now

Matt

waterrockets 

Probably no more than two interval workouts a week, especially for the shorter intervals. They'll mess you up.

Not sure why she was what popped into my mind for something you'd really want to avoid, but there you have it.

zimbo

The improvements you seek (better climbing ability and being able to pull longer at the front on group rides) are both a matter of increasing what is commonly referred to as Functional Threshold Power (FTP). Loosely explained, it's the maximum amount of power you can sustain for an hour on a solo ride. There are several different viable approaches to improving FTP.

In my own experience (and there are others on this forum who do not agree with me), group rides are NOT a good way to improve your FTP because so much of the time is spent soft-pedaling, coasting, or surging. When I look at the breakdown of the time I spend during group rides with my effort in the threshhold-improvement sweetspot (just below threshold, at threshold, and just above threshold), there's very little time spent there. For me at least, group rides tend to be lots of coasting and soft-pedaling with some anaerobic surges due to the accordian effect of pack riding.

I would recommend a workout as follows:

- Ride easy for 10 minutes to warm up
- Ride at a pace that's just below uncomfortable for 30 minutes
- Ride at a pace that is uncomfortable to hold for 20 minutes
- Ride easy for 10 minutes
- Ride at a pace that is uncomfortable to hold for 20 minutes
- Ride easy for 10 minutes to cool down

The two "uncomfortable" sessions don't have to be vomit-enducing, especially not at first. The goal is to ride easy enough that you don't have to quit early but hard enough that you're starting to count down the minutes when you get about half way done. It's better to do the 20-minutes stretches in an area where you don't have to stop (ie. no traffic lights, etc).

I think the advice for the short, really hard stuff (ie. 1-minute intervals and pyramids) is more advanced than what you need right now and since your stated goals are to improve climbing and pulling ability rather than becoming a racer, they're not necessary. But that's just me.

I haven't done any structured 1-minute or pyramid intervals all season long. None.

--Steve

biffstephens

Ok so I have talked to a few friends and here is what one of them is suggesting...

Here are my heart rate Zones

Zone 1 93 to 111
Zone 2 111 to 130
Zone 3 130 to 148
Zone 4 148 to 167
Zone 5 167 to 185

Here is the ride I did yesterday...

Zone 1 .1 miles
Zone 2 1.3 miles
Zone 3 6.4 miles
Zone 4 14.7 miles
Zone 5 5 miles


Suggestions for the rest of the week...

1 hr. Zone 2 on Tuesday

Wednesday will be a hard day similar to Monday

1.5 hr. Zone 2 Thursday

1hr. Zone 1 or off on Friday

Saturday or Sunday do a 3-4hr ride mostly zone 2

In the last half of the ride do 1x5 min Zone 4--recover 5 minutes

Then 2x20 min Zone 3, recover 15 mins between

Then 8x1 min. high cadence (100-125 rpm or higher) efforts, not a max effort but a perceived exertion of 6 to 7 Recover 2 mins. between the int

If I ride on Saturday, you could do an endurance ride on Sunday of 2-3hours…again Zone 2, or off.

Does this sound about right....I have group rides that I ride Mon and Wed that I like to go to....usually something on the weekends too...but not as hard but longer distances...

I really tried to push my heart rate starting last Wed. I realized that I was not hitting Zone 5 at all....yesterday I was amazed at how long I could stay in that zone....Will this training change stuff that fast?

blacksquid

I don't know about your situation but I dropped 1:30 off of my 5K time while increasing my speed to ~33kmph.

waterrockets 

do zone @ time, not zone @ miles

Don't do all zones/time combos on the same day.

Get lots of variety.

blacksquid

+1 - On a typical day, I'll only have one set of intervals plus some cadence work or climbing work.

biffstephens

So here is my latest ride info....this is our standard Monday Night Ride..

I have 3 laps....one the ride from my house to the start....two the ride and 3 on the way back to my house...I will just show 2 since the rest is just goofing off....warm up or cool down I guess...

Lap2
Total Distance 20.47 miles
Avg Speed 21.9
Max Speed 33.1
Avg Heart Rate 155
Max Heart Rate 176
Avg Cadence 81 rpm

Ok here are my HR Zone info....

Zone 1 0:00 min
Zone 2 0:41 min
Zone 3 6:22 min
Zone 4 37.38 min
Zone 5 12.06 min

Here is what my HR Zones are set at...this is just out of a book based on my age...

Zone 1 93 to 111
Zone 2 111 to 130
Zone 3 130 to 148
Zone 4 148 to 167
Zone 5 167 to 185

Your comments are appreciated....and thanks for everyones help so far....to add to this I feel great...I feel like I am riding strong and I am in the front more often. Last Wed ride is a pretty hilly (for here) and I was very happy with the ride....woooohooooo this is FUN!!!

Sasquatchula

I'm certainly not one who should be throwing his hat into this ring, as there are many, much better qualified already here, but I'm curious. If I had a compass and T-square I might figure it out, but I'll just ask. I see you have ballpark numbers for HR, and you're keeping track of time in those zones, but what are those relationships? So, you're in your zone 5 for 12minutes, is that a solid 12 minutes?(AAGGHH!!!)Or is that 12 minutes accumulated over the entire ride? Perhaps it's in 6x2 minute sets? 12x1 minute sets?

As I understand it, intervals should be regimented events, as outlined in various ways above. The overall idea is to train your body for extended high intensity efforts, by doing short high intensity efforts over and over again. Gradually increasing the length of those short efforts, or mixing in transitional training. So if you're working on overall speed, you would have a mix of cadence(to get used to pedalling faster) tempo(to work on stamina in the saddle) and, perhaps sprints(for the cardio/anaerobic). Hopefully I'll be corrected if I'm off base with any of that.

I guess what I'm really getting at is what was said earlier. If you're going to focus on intervals, you really want to focus on intervals. You can mix them up, and create a plan that works for you, but I don't think that can be done in a group ride environment. Surely you can work some in before and after, though.

biffstephens

Sorry to misslead.....the Monday and Wed night ride are sort of like my "race" to me at least....so the data you see if just for a normal ride. Oh and the data is 12 min over the overall ride....not just at one time...I guess it is hard to look at someones data and tell if it was a good ride...how hilly or a head wind....whatever the case may be....

Here is the Motion Based account of it...it includes all three laps...but gives you more data like elevation and junk like that...

https://trail.motionbased.com/trail/activity/3060516#