Mr. Fly

I thought the suffering when averaging 24+mph was the fun!?? Or have I been hookwinked all this time??!!!

slim_77

to the Op: Gandalf.




..sorry if it was already posted somewhere in the 14 pages of this page turner of a post.

moki

I think Rivendells and similarly styled bikes (no carbon, clearance for big tires, fender mounts etc) are a different kind of fast, and people that use them as intended are a different kind of tough. yeah, a full carbon 14lb machine is going to kick ass ripping up and down glassy tarmac, but the moment the road turns rough or disappears altogether, a bike like that is much more stress and way less fun, not to mention much slower.

So if you're the type who only ever rides on good roads, or is willing to slug out 30 klicks of potholed city krap in order to get to some nice territory, good on you. There are a thousand models for you to choose from.

But if you like to get dirty once in a while, and ride some gravel paths and singletrack, maybe pick up a sixpack and some lunch and get lost for a while, the Soloist you've been lusting after isn't gonna cut it. What you need are 35mm tires, fenders, racks and bags. And yeah, some of the pain you're feeling afterwards comes from lugging around extra weight, but cracking a coffee stout on the bank of a river will help a ton.

Sashimi knives and utility knives both have a purpose, but I don't see sushi chefs and hunters arguing over which is better.

dcvelo

Are we sure? Is there a knives forum somewhere?

But your point is a good one. Your bike should suit the type of riding you enjoy. I don't really understand why anyone needs to be down on those who make a different choice than their own.

But then, being one of those pretend racers, what would I know?

Duke of Kent

Like these, eh?





Maybe we have a different idea of what singletrack consists of, but a Rivendell is no more suited for singletrack than a 15lb wonderbike. Real single track requires knobbies, disc brakes, and 80mm of travel.

And I agree with the second part of your statement, but I have a different solution. A cyclocross bike, a backpack, and a $20 bill.

And for the record, I ride a CAAD9 with Centaur. The only carbon bits on my bike are the fork and post. The most expensive part of my bike will be the new Record/CX-Ray/F20 tubies I'm currently drooling over.

Six jours

Backpacks suck. Kind of like knobbies on the road, whether they're attached to mountain bike wheels or cyclocross wheels.

My rando bike -- which is a lot like the stuff Rivendell sells -- is perfect for what I want to do with it. I ride a mix of roads and fire trails with the occasional bit of non-technical single track. Often these roads are long (40+ miles) and/or very far from home. Ignoring the question of whether knobs are actually necessary just because the road isn't paved, my options include putting my cross/mountain bike in the car and drive to the trail, putting up with riding long road miles on tires unsuited to the purpose, or just doing what I'm doing already, even at the risk of upsetting strangers on the internet.

<edit> If you or anyone else happens to enjoy riding a cyclocross bike with a backpack, and such an arrangement meets their needs, more power to them. That doesn't, however, mean that it's a satisfactory solution for everyone else...

halfspeed

Guys were racing singletrack long before 80mm shocks and disc brakes were invented. You may need those to be =competitive= today, but you no more need that stuff now than you did 20 years ago to just do some riding. Heck, thirty years ago I was riding my Schwinn Speedster three speed through the woods.

And I agree with Six Jours about the backpack, positively heinous.

Six jours

One of Grant's points -- shared by Jan Heine, myself, and several other shining stars of the bicycle world -- is that we've tended to think of bikes in very specialized terms, the last decade or so. IOW, we think of one bike for the road and another for dirt, and from there we break it down further -- time trial, touring, gnarly single-track, smooth fire roads, etc., etc. And that all makes sense if we are looking for maximum performance in any single arena, and/or don't mind owning a collection of bikes -- and then being limited in our day's ride by whatever bike we chose that morning.

But I've gotten to the point where I want to be able to ride all day long on a comfortable bike, carrying what I need with me, and being able to head down a dirt road or into the mountains or have a little picnic in the woods three counties over. The road race bike, the mountain bike, the 'cross bike... all good bikes for their intended purpose, but all too narrowly focused to meet my needs these days. Why that gets under some people's skin I don't know.

MIN 

I rode 30 miles of fire roads and technical single track this weekend on my new cross bike. All you need is 35c knobbies.

koine2002

You must remember, in our day, any assertion of "being right" is considered arrogant. To be "undecided" or "up in the air" is to be humble. It's a result of the postmodern mindset.

Duke of Kent

I didn't mean to give the impression that I was mad about you sharing your opinion. And, I complete understand that mindset. My dad has a bike similar to what you describe, and it suits his needs just fine.

I just get irritated when someone like ABH makes mass generalizations about things (it seems) he knows very little about. He goes out of his way to step on other peoples' toes, and that's pretty lame.

Some day, hell, I'd probably enjoy having that sort of bike too. I'm just too poor at the moment to have anything besides my race bike, with which I get parts and maintenance for free now. I also have very few friends around here, particularly lady friends, who ride at all, so hanging out on the local rails-to-trails and heading to the river just isn't happening these days. Once I get married, we'll see.

Six jours

The trouble, for me, is that ride might come after 50 miles of pavement, where knobbies are irritating a best. Granted, I would prefer knobs -- a mountain bike, actually -- for technical single track, but for fire roads knobs aren't at all necessary. So again, for what I'm doing, bikes like Rivendells make great sense.

Duke of Kent

Ah, good sir, I can cast a bit of light on something that was revealed to me, once upon a time:

https://probikekit.com/display.php?code=Y1153

A cross tire for dry conditions, and VERY ideal for fire roads, etc. Available in tubular form as well, for the purists.

solveg

Sheesh! Men! Duke, you go to the trails to meet* women! I was on a rail trail on Sunday, when the football games were on, and it was about 90% women--from 18 to 80, alone, in pairs and in groups.

And speaking of Rivendell, I got a kick out of a conversation I had that day with a guy who could really ride. I was taking a break, and he stopped and said, "Let's see this rig!" He had never heard of an Atlantis and was pretty amazed by the hub generator and the 3 water bottles. He said, "You must like to go long distances!" and I replied with "I'm working up to it. Slowly....this bike weighs about 50 lbs and maxes out at 16 mph!"

Which is fine with me 70% of the time.

BillyD

This is not something to dream about and look forward to. Get a grip!

Men look forward to being bachelors.

Women look forward to being married.

Duke of Kent

Living with one's parents as a post-collegiate 22 year old makes any decent, alternative living situation seem idyllic in comparison.

MIN 

Yep my 34c knobbies suck on pavement but I love the way it feels off-road, particularly when wet. The point I was trying to make is that a CX bike is fine for single-track pursuits. Your technique and form goes further than a 80mm fork on a mtb bike.

BillyD

There's worse, believe me. Pick the wrong one and it's the worse experience in life.

Brian Ratliff

And now you've got a bike for that also...

It doesn't end. If you like bikes, you like bikes, and a general purpose bike won't be as fast (or comfortable) as a specialized purpose bike and the specialized purpose bike will only do specialized things and not be a jack of all trades. Why dwell on the extremes of having to have the one bike that does everything or a specialized bike for every purpose?

I used to live in Corvallis, OR at OSU and I would take my skinny tired (23mm) road bike out on the fire roads of the national forest out there. You should have seen the look on some of those mountain bikers' faces when I went by them in the 30x23 up the fire road. Another time, I went on a 50 mile loop one day in rural washington county (in Oregon) which included a several miles of gravel road on my 23mm road bike. It was 5 miles out of 50; why would I want to penalize my ride with an extranious 10 lbs I'd have to haul up several 1000 feet for climbing for the sake of 5 miles of gravel?

I've got 4 bikes now, and they all do different things. I've got a tricked out racing bike. I've got a rain bike (formerly the tricked out racing bike before the current tricked out racing bike). I've got a commuting bike and a fixie commuting bike. I'll own more bicycles before I die. I ride them all. Each has their purpose, but that said, I'm not above using the $3500 racing bike for a little commuting or off paved road riding, or using the commuter in a pace line - I've done both. But if I'm going to my Saturday "pretend race" club ride (which is fun precisely because I enjoy working hard next to people who are also working hard and competing with people who like to compete), I'll choose the bike most suitable for the job. Why would I do anything else?

I buy new bicycles because I enjoy the experience of bicycling, and many different types of bicycles give access to many different facets to this sport and lifestyle. There is room for both the specialized purpose bicycles and for the general purpose bicycles in my stable.

halfspeed

You don't need to get married to get out of your parents' basement. Here's what you need to know to be on your own:

1) Sort your laundry. Dark colors, light colors and whites go in separate loads (unless you want pink underwear).

2) Hot sauce cures a multitude of kitchen disasters until you learn to cook.

3) Learn one GOOD recipe so you can impress a date.

4) Pay your bills and watch your credit rating closely. Debt reduces options.

If you learn to live on your own, you don't =need= to get married and can afford to be choosy.

Lecture over.

v1nce

+ 5780000!! to all that and all previous comments in the same vain! I am 30 never married, never regretted it. May still do so but very unlikely. Living on my own for 13 years had a blast, paid almost no or very little rent in all that time. It IS possible. Please for the love of all things good do not marry of have kids too quickly! Try living with a girl for 3 years minimum before you entertain any thoughts of fatherhood or marriage. Or choose to be unmarried and childfree for live if that suits you. There is nothing wrong with that! Marriage can be great but it can be hell worse than you can now imagine (my mom divorced 4 times so i do now a little about it). Take your time to make sure it is for you and if you do it that you have the right partner.

As for the Credit Card, the best thing is to simply not have one! It is highway robbery. Or perhaps have but never let the debt go over $ 500.

Houston

I have read parts of the Rivendell website and have enjoyed it. I don't agree with everything that Grant says, but I do recognize it as well considered opinions. I would much rather someone make statements that they fervently believe than a whole bunch inane bulls**t that teaches me nothing, [read Surly]. I will never own a Surly because of their, well, surly, irreverent marketing methods. I guess I would prefer the serious minded over the inane, the self-indulgent thinker to the self-indulgent moron. Perhaps there's a thread on "Who writes the moronic drivel on Surlys website?" Just for the record, I don't know ABH.

solveg

Where I live, the Surly and Riv people are on the same side of political spectrum.

Duke of Kent

I already do all of my own laundry, because my mother has refused to do it for the last 4 years. I actually cook very well, particularly chicken, salmon, and your processed meats. My only debt is less than one year's tuition in the form of a federal loan, which I have started repaying. I'm remarkably self sufficient at this point. College forced that upon me.

The only reason I'm living at home is that it's very expensive to live around here, and my daily commute is 15 minutes. I have a buddy who gets done with school after this semester; might see what he thinks about finding some new digs near the local college campus. Renting a house and such.

My problem with the current "regime" is that my parents, particularly my mom, ask entirely too many questions about damn near everything. Not even anything personal; just normal questions that are asked three times in the course of an hour. I realize I'm living in their house but I just wish they would leave me alone from time to time. I literally cannot go an hour in my house without my mom coming in, sitting on my bed, and interrogating me.

Oh, and the money that I'm saving by not paying rent elsewhere is helping to finance my track operation for next year.

Big Paulie

+1

I think it's interesting that few people give Grant Peterson credit for having the balls to put his name (and face) out there when he states opinions which are clearly not mainstream. The vast majority of cycling oriented marketing programs hide behind so many layers of gloss, nothing meaningful gets said, and no one identifiable says it. Which is their point. Can anyone tell me the name of the primary person who drives Trek, or Specialized, or Giant? If the "unthinkable" happened, and one of those companies make a statment in their marketing that you disagreed with, who would you level your disgust at?

Even if you vehemently disagree with Rivendell's philosophy, show some respect for Grant's courage. When he started, the idea of marketing cycling products which weren't "state-of-the-art" was laughable. But here he is, 12 years later, being talked about in public like he's some slick, Madison Avenue hustler who siezed on a trend, exploited it, and spends his days overlooking the Pacific in a 10,000 square foot mansion.

My guess is that "rebels" like Surly wouldn't even exist if Rivendell didn't break the ice. For all of his "conservative" ramblings, Grant Peterson is the real rebel.