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  1. #376
    I eat carbide. Psimet2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
    Oh. Well, then I guess Grant, his "followers" and a couple of million other cyclotourists have all been wrong for the last 100 years. We should all just go down to Performance, get the latest "designed for cobblestones" CF bike with 23mm clinchers, and try to pretend that we were never so stupid as to actually think that wide tires are comfortable, fenders keep mud off your jersey, and relaxed geometries make for more pleasant long distance rides.

    Thank you, thank you, "Psimet2001"! You've finally shown all us ignorant, backwards fools the light! Your bike is the single perfect machine for all our endeavors. We are forever indebted to you! And so on and so forth. Lol.
    What part of "meh....I just ride my wannabe road racer bike with tires that are too skinny to ride comfortably over the 50/50 terrain I ride" did you construe as my declaration that road bikes are the only bikes that should be ridden on dirt and gravel roads?

    ...or did you miss all of my posts where I rail Grant because he insults bikes that are different than his. You obviously read something into my post that wasn't there.

    Pure genius.

  2. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by solveg View Post
    Exactly!!! This is why I own my Atlantis! I have been riding pavement to state parks and then hitting dirt trails. I will be going to Kansas this week and riding paved and gravel 50/50. It's perfect for riding when you don't know what road conditions are going to be like and it could be gravel, dirt or pavement! It's a practical* bike.
    That might be feasible on the flat smooth trails in the mid-West. But, out here in the big mountains of the Sierras and Siskiyous, the trails and even the dirt roads tend to be too steep and rocky. My first bike was a hardtail mountain bike, and I can assure you that trying any of our local trails on your Riv would be a painful experience.

    Interestingly, it probably would be feasible to ride the dirt roads in the Colorado Rockies on a Riv. Their dirt roads tend to be pretty smooth (I've driven nearly 50 mph on some of them in my WRX).
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  3. #378
    Senior Member skinny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
    <Six Jours>,...You obviously read something into my post that wasn't there...
    At least he's consistent.

  4. #379
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    What part of "meh....I just ride my wannabe road racer bike with tires that are too skinny to ride comfortably over the 50/50 terrain I ride" did you construe as my declaration that road bikes are the only bikes that should be ridden on dirt and gravel roads?
    Hey, it's the "A word means exactly what I say it mean, no more and no less" game! I'll play along: So what part of "Oh. Well, then I guess Grant, his "followers" and a couple of million other cyclotourists have all been wrong for the last 100 years. We should all just go down to Performance, get the latest "designed for cobblestones" CF bike with 23mm clinchers, and try to pretend that we were never so stupid as to actually think that wide tires are comfortable, fenders keep mud off your jersey, and relaxed geometries make for more pleasant long distance rides.

    Thank you, thank you, "Psimet2001"! You've finally shown all us ignorant, backwards fools the light! Your bike is the single perfect machine for all our endeavors. We are forever indebted to you! And so on and so forth. Lol." did you take to mean that I'm accusing you saying that road bikes are the only bikes that should be ridden on dirt and gravel roads?

    ...or did you miss all of my posts where I rail Grant because he insults bikes that are different than his. You obviously read something into my post that wasn't there.
    Kind of ironic, considering that you're reading stuff into Grant's words and then whining that people are reading stuff into your words.

  5. #380
    I eat carbide. Psimet2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
    Hey, it's the "A word means exactly what I say it mean, no more and no less" game! I'll play along: So what part of "Blah, blah, blah...Thank you, thank you, "Psimet2001"! You've finally shown all us ignorant, backwards fools the light! Your bike is the single perfect machine for all our endeavors. We are forever indebted to you! And so on and so forth. Lol."

    did you take to mean that I'm accusing you saying that road bikes are the only bikes that should be ridden on dirt and gravel roads?
    That part right there. .

  6. #381
    Senior Member skinny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
    That part right there. .
    "Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself.", Prov 26:4

  7. #382
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    In terms of who is criticizing who, I see a lot of nonsense from both extremes. I try not to pay any attention to it, the same as I do much of what is written about bicycling on the internet. Much of it is just bull anyway. I would no more ride a road bike setup upright with the bars as high as an Electra cruiser and on tires as wide as a 1930's Schwinn paperboy bike than I would ride my fairly nice road bike with the bars 6 inches below the saddle and with 20mm tires pumped up to 140psi. But unfortunately for those who have not developed their cycling habits prior to the internet and the era of hype, following the advice of either persuasion will inevitably lead to unending discomfort and probably a lot of wasted money. But I guess everyone needs their own time to mature and develop. I know I did.

    I do defend Rivendell though, simply because it's a foil to the excessive racer mentality which prevails today, and because a few such companies and builders help ensure that at least for the time being, the beauty, elegance and practicality of lugged steel frames will live on. After I'm dead, I don't care. I would gladly own a Riv frame if I could afford to buy one, but I would set it up with the handlebars lower than the saddle, and I would not use tires any wider than 25mm on it, and I would not care one iota about fender clearance. When I was a teen and a 20-something, most people quickly removed any fenders if a road type bike happened to come with them installed. We considered fenders to be useless weight and a source of annoying noise. If you ride when it's really raining, you get just as wet with fenders as without, unless you're only riding to the nearest Starbucks. There are better choices in bike style than a fine road bike for that kind of distance.

    I do kind of suspect that many people on here read and look at their bicycle more than they ride, though, otherwise they couldn't possibly offer the advice they do with a straight face.

  8. #383
    Crash Test Dummy rickhigbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longfemur View Post
    I do kind of suspect that many people on here read and look at their bicycle more than they ride, though, otherwise they couldn't possibly offer the advice they do with a straight face.
    A great statement of fact. Profound. The perfect sig material. Thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by Longfemur View Post
    I do kind of suspect that many people on here read and look at their bicycle more than they ride, though, otherwise they couldn't possibly offer the advice they do with a straight face.

  9. #384
    I eat carbide. Psimet2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longfemur View Post
    I do kind of suspect that many people on here read and look at their bicycle more than they ride, though, otherwise they couldn't possibly offer the advice they do with a straight face.
    I guess you've never gotten out from behind your computer and actually met up woth other BF members to actually ride before then. Otherwise you probably would have realized that you're pretty wrong.

    In my experience most of the people on here who actually post do in fact ride their bikes, and a lot more than most would think. It's fun when a group of these racer wannabe's get together and proceeed to hand you your own ass served up on a platter. It's the 2/3 that lurk that more than likely come for the schwag, but never ride to whom you are most likely trying to address.

  10. #385
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    As a trader, I have to note one thing - why would you bid 750 (and that seems to be the lowest price there) for a Rivendell frameset if you can get something like http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/bik/444801097.html for X times less. What makes Rivendell bikes better then a mid-level vintage racer? Especially if you consider that I can update the vintage with a modern groupset for less then the price of the Rivendell frameset.

  11. #386
    I eat carbide. Psimet2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qw1a View Post
    As a trader, I have to note one thing - why would you bid 750 (and that seems to be the lowest price there) for a Rivendell frameset if you can get something like http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/bik/444801097.html for X times less. What makes Rivendell bikes better then a mid-level vintage racer? Especially if you consider that I can update the vintage with a modern groupset for less then the price of the Rivendell frameset.
    Cult fees. Same thing a donating at church. Trek too.

  12. #387
    . bbattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qw1a View Post
    As a trader, I have to note one thing - why would you bid 750 (and that seems to be the lowest price there) for a Rivendell frameset if you can get something like http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/bik/444801097.html for X times less. What makes Rivendell bikes better then a mid-level vintage racer? Especially if you consider that I can update the vintage with a modern groupset for less then the price of the Rivendell frameset.
    It's all a matter of personal preference. Bicycles are very personal objects; one man's Paramount is another man's Mexico. Someone might ask you why buy used when you can get this full carbon, full DuraAce bike for half-price. Some feel that it is silly to spend even that much. It is impossible to put a dollar amount on someone else's personal preferences; very difficult to do so even for one's own personal preferences. Have you never bought something without analyzing the cost/benefit ratio first? One can't just put price vs. enjoyment on a graph and plot the nirvana spot.

    If you saw some of the bikes I'm working on in the garage you'd probably think I was crazy(I may well be) but I'm having fun and that's the whole point.

    Happy Trails

  13. #388
    Senior Member halfspeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qw1a View Post
    As a trader, I have to note one thing - why would you bid 750 (and that seems to be the lowest price there) for a Rivendell frameset if you can get something like http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/bik/444801097.html for X times less. What makes Rivendell bikes better then a mid-level vintage racer? Especially if you consider that I can update the vintage with a modern groupset for less then the price of the Rivendell frameset.
    Rivs aren't designed quite the same way vintage racers are. Rivs usually have more clearance, lower BBs, a slightly sloping top tube and a head tube extension. Subtle differences, but if that's what you want, there you go.

    Plus, some people just prefer new stuff.

  14. #389
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    Can someone explain this item for sale at the Rivendell site?????????????

    http://www.rivbike.com/search/run?qu...product=31-377

    I'm an avid camper and believe in quality goods, but a hundred dollar hatchet?

  15. #390
    Senior Member skinny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big chainring View Post
    Can someone explain this item for sale at the Rivendell site?????????????

    http://www.rivbike.com/search/run?qu...product=31-377

    I'm an avid camper and believe in quality goods, but a hundred dollar hatchet?
    Forged by the elves of Rivendell.

  16. #391
    Squirrel solveg's Avatar
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    That's a wee, bantam-weight hatchet! If I had some driving need for a hatchet that I had to carry cross country on a bike, then I might be tempted. But the need would have to be pretty dire...like I was on a reality show where I had to tour X-country eating only chickens I stole from farms. Then it would be worth $100.

  17. #392
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    The Hatchet is beautiful to be sure but i would never buy it either. If you need something like that buy a Fiskars, not quite as beautiful but at least as good and a lot cheaper.
    http://www.rhizomes.nl/twenty.html
    My Tweaked and modded Raleigh Twenty. Lots of pictures and lots of general info on for example a different & Cheap Bottom Bracket solution as well as fork solution.

  18. #393
    Senior Member classic1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big chainring View Post
    Can someone explain this item for sale at the Rivendell site?????????????

    http://www.rivbike.com/search/run?qu...product=31-377

    I'm an avid camper and believe in quality goods, but a hundred dollar hatchet?
    It probably comes with a brooks saddle and fenders.

    Anyway, whats wrong with a chainsaw? Those Rivendell dudes need to get with the times IMO. My Colnago chainsaw is made of CARBON FIBRE!!!

  19. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfspeed View Post
    Plus, rich suckers just prefer new stuff.
    Fixed.
    Quote Originally Posted by patentcad
    This thread clearly qualifies for a coveted Fred Pointless Hand Wringing Medallion for 2008. Kudos.

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