skinnyone

I am normally a spinner but sometimes it feels like I have more power at 80-85 rpm rather than 95+ when I am on a slight incline or trying to power over a hump on the road. anyone else feel the same way?

Avalanche325

The lower RPM will give you more power. The spin will give you better efficiency over a longer distance.

Bontrager

So do you go over the hump faster at a lower gear at 85 vs. lower gear at 95? That ultimately will tell you which gear you have more power in, all other things being equal.

On a normal ride I spin up steep hills and try to power up road humps to try and get stronger and faster up those minor inconveniences you call humps.

skinnyone

That definitely makes sense.

True.. I do find myself faster on a bigger gear than the lower gear. I was thinking that it could be that my pedal stroke gets choppier as I try and spin in higher rpms?

toucci

I used to find that was true but it was just a mental thing. I would either be spinning with light pedal pressure and going nowhere or mashing at a low cadence.

The best is moderate pressure with a high cadence.

stapfam

Try it out on the flat- Ride along at your normal cadence and just keep pressure on the pedals. Note your speed then change up 3 gears. See if the speed goes up as the cadence rises or drops as it falls.

I prefer to keep the same cadence on a ride. Head or tail wind or inclines may affect my speed- but the cadence will stay the same

atomship47

i think it is psychological to a degree.

however, i kind of liken it to a car.....people talk about speeds their vehicle "wants" to drive OR gets the best fuel economy. i notice that once all things become a constant (incline, wind, etc.) there is a gear that is most comfortable and efficient for me. in other gears, i can go as fast or faster....but it takes a higher level of cardio or exertion than i'm comfortable maintaining for an extended period. what sux is, on my hybrid, i regularly find that gear to be non-existent. it's somewhere between 2 adjacent cogs so i'm constantly shifting.

wrobertdavis

I have limited experience, but can relate what happened to me on the MS150 Houston to Austin this year. On the second day, which had more hills, I started up a hill and forgot to downshift. I just pressed forward and discovered I was passing a lot of riders because I was moving signficantly faster than they were. For the rest of the ride (about 50 miles), I did the hills at a cadence of 75-80 using a higher gear. I was passing everyone in sight.

Bob

waterrockets 

This is right and wrong. Lower cadence is more efficient because of the mechanical resistance (on the bike and inside your body). The problem is that it requires more strength, which affects your resilience throughout a ride.

LeMond said that your climbing cadence should drop as the grade goes up. He also recommended standing for 20% of a climb (30s on every 2:30), which further lowers your cadence. The nice thing is that you're using your muscles differently, and employing some different muscles than on the flats because of your upper body position. This means that the hit you take from the lower cadence isn't all carried over to the flats.

8Lives

I did a little experiment last week on one of the local climbs (Pinehurst for those in Northern California). Pinehurst is about 5 miles long, but the steeper part is only 1.3 miles (6.1 average, 12.4 max grade). I usually stand for the steep sections (10% plus), but did the climb last weekend seated in my 34-25. I felt more fatigued at the top, but I averaged 8.9mph versus my usual 8.7 or so. At the top it levels out for about 8/10ths and then climbs for another mile or so at around 4.5%. While my time was better on the main climb I paid for it in the next section, not recovering nearly as quickly as usual when I stand every so often. Not scientific but...

Zouf

Saw a study in a magazine a couple of months ago (will try and find ref), the lowdown is: lower rpm is more efficient, but not as sustainable. In other words, in pure efficiency measure, low rpm gives better power output per body energy expenditure, but relies on muscular endurance to be sustained; higher rpm is less efficient, but relies more on aerobic endurance to be sustained. So conclusion is: for short climbs, mash; for long climbs, spin.

CdCf

I always gear up one or two steps when I hit a short climb, and I mostly stand for shorter climbs. I definitely put out more power at low cadences.

recursive

That probably explains why the top sprinters sprint at about 70rpm.

kendall

and here everyone has always told me I ride wrong!

That's how I have been riding for the last 35 years, seldom use the low gears except on take-off and long steeper climbs, and do pass a lot of people on hills. for me it works great, but my son-in-law spins (competitive bmx racer from way back) and trying to follow in my gear wipes him out so I have to say it is entirely dependant on how you've trained yourself to pedal as to what works for you.

ken.

edzo

ummm this depends on how you train. I stand up, my cadence increases 2 beats. I train that way so when i stand up I don't slow down one iota and screw up the guy on my wheel.

I can do 179rpm standing, up very slight grades, and it is brutal. but in practice on real hills it's 80's or lower. and yes a mix of sitting and standing to keep the muscles equally working on steeps. there is a 13% overall energy cost whenever you stand, but you can make more power to the pedals via the braced arms and arched back which the legs can push against

fordfasterr

I feel better at low rpms when climbing......

Seems like I can get more power down.

banerjek

I tend to sit a bit further back on the saddle when going up steep inclines which seems to favor a lower cadence.

FormerBMX'er

I think like cars we all have a sweet spot in the power band that is the perfect balance of cadence and power.

waterrockets 

When you stand up, it's not slowing down that gets the guy in back. It's that your center of mass is pushing the bike backwards briefly. You need to accelerate briefly to truly overcome it. I always stand, upshift 2 cogs, and stomp half a stroke at the same time. No messing with the guy behind me.

Yeah, I hit 187rpm last week standing (26mph on a 39-22), but that's not how I ride -- that's training. I climb around 80rpm like you when seated, and probably 70 or so standing.

Another thing I like to do is accelerate a bit standing, and recover sitting. My muscles seem to appreciate a little variance as opposed to a constant effort.

As you say, it's largely what you're used to.

curiouskid55

If im' not 39-21 with a cadence below 90 it's not really a hill. Slight incline? Just power through maintaining gear and cadence. If you can't produce power at tempo it just means you are slow.

shogun17

Lower RPMs don't give you 'more power'. PEDs and training give you more power. You will use more power if you are a spinner in that bigger gear trying to accelerate it up to a higher cadence. You can also apply the power you have over the pedal stroke easier when the cranks are moving slower. I do the same on small hills, but I spin at 85-95 anyway.

But any mechanical device cannot increase the power your legs can produce, that is up to your legs by themselves. You can buy things (Vista MagicX, synchro rings, Q-Rings blah blah blah) to apply your power differently but I'm pretty damn sure you won't produce more power if you change something mechanical. Otherwise we'd see a heap of different things on pro bikes and they'd all TT and breakaway, and hill climb, at low cadences.

waterrockets 

Can you put out more power for five minutes at 95 rpm, or 180 rpm?

skinnyone

Right you are.. How about power produced to power actually that is actually applied to your wheels? Surely losses and loss mechanisms are going to different at different rpms.. and as waterrockets pointed out, sustainability is another variable in the equation.

roydyates

My personal feeling is that you do really pay for it in the next section ... but your message prompts some off-topic questions:

Are you starting at Redwood and describing the climb up to Skyline Drive, or the opposite direction, or some other Pinehurst? Isn't the steepest part right near the top where it joins Skyline Drive?

Also, I've only done the ride up to Skyline twice, but both times I felt that the road is going mostly downhill from Canyon Road to the switchbacks of the last hill, but my speedometer at 12-15mi/hr says I'm wrong. I can't tell if I'm too tired to think or is it really uphill?

shogun17

Irrelevant. If you could physically spin 180 for 5 minutes, then theoretically yes, you could put out the same power. We were talking a difference of 20-30rpm from 80-110 (I'm guessin). You can only produce so much power. Switching to a lower gear will not give you any more power.

And about sustainability, if you are trying to apply the same power outside your comfortable cadence range, you will not be able to maintain that power for as long.