h2o_polo_boi

after a year of road cycling and some yoga and pilates classes, I just replaced my stem and lowered it about 1inch lower than my saddle. Before it was level with the saddle. Having the bars lower seems so much more comfortable contrary to conventional wisdom. No longer does my back feel crunched. But my question is how much more lower before it is not productive in a 6 hour ride? How do you guys determine what is your perfect bar height?

brad06ag

That will ultimately come down to how you feel, you might be able to go several inches lower without feeling a problem and actually like or 1 inch might be ideal for you. The only real way to tell would be to try some different heights and see what you like for yourself.

h2o_polo_boi

what is the average difference between saddle and stem height?

.Cole

Mine is close to 4 inches. But I ride in the drops 90%+ of the time, so it's actually like 6 or 7.

Most people are comfortable with 1-2.

StanSeven

It's really a personal preference thing based on flexibility, desired comfort, and what you can take over a long haul.

Ideally you should have a flat, or nearly flat back, for an aero position and maximum speed. But if it's not comfortable, why subject yourself to it.

munkyv22

Adjusting your bike fit is like (%@(*^%!; Just keep going until it hurts and then back out a tiny bit.

urbanknight

If your back hurts, it's too low. If it doesn't hurt, it's too high.

Mine is a 2" diff, but that's as much as I can get with my frame and a -17 stem.

h2o_polo_boi

It's the weirdest thing. Before when my saddle used to be level with my stem, my back would hurt after long rides, long climbs, or sustained effort. It's the type of lower back pain you feel that can be relieved by leaning back or getting off the bike and standing straight up. Most the time I would have not have the pain but my low back would be tense. After my test ride today with a 10% avg grade climb to my school for 13-miles RT my back never felt better. I also got a new personal best time !!!

I feel as if I unlocked a new potential on my bike. Kinda like getting a good set of wheels or shaving a couple pounds off the bike. My theory as to why the back pain disappeared is because my back is more stretched out when I'm lower and the spine is not as compressed and taking all the bumps. The aero factor and placebo effect probably contributed to the best time too.

M_S

For me it's in large part about the balance between weight on hands and weight on the *cough* rear. The longer I ride the more I favor my hands. I think this is because with drops I get so many hand positions, my hands don't get sore easily. I can't shift around on the saddle quite as much, and on long rides standing a lot isn't great. So while I started with bars level with saddle, I moved to 1 inch below. Now, on a new bike, I've got about 2 inches difference and may even consider a little bit more. Obviously there are aerodynamic advantages as well.

NomadVW 

Eventually you just find what fits. Then you start working your way lower the more aerodynamic you want to be. I recently dropped 2 cm on my front end, it felt good. A week and a half later, I thought - hmmm... I can go lower, I think. Tried dropping another 8 degrees on the stem ( further drop of around 17mm), and my back, shoulders and neck told me in one 3 hour ride... NO WAY. (or at least, NOT YET)

So, I'll keep riding at where I'm at for another month on the lower, then drop incrementally 4-5mm at a time over a couple weeks. Your body will tell you what you can do in saddle/bar drop faster than anyone else.

BarracksSi

That's the same kind of pain, and the same relieving position, that I experienced when I was on a frame that was too small. That is, after a while, I only felt good when either sitting straight up (which I can't do on the move since I still can't ride no-handed after all these years ) or crouched deep into the drops. I switched to a bigger/longer frame, and now I can ride in any position without wanting to quit & go home.

NomadVW 

PS> I got tired of trying to figure out the math, so I threw together a quick spreadsheet to do it for me.

https://www.cycleiwakuni.com/download...em_changes.xls

Saddle to bar drop is top of saddle to top of bars
Nose of saddle to bars is tip of the saddle to the center of the bars.

VW

edit - link fixed

genejockey 

I think maybe what you're feeling is the difference between sitting on the saddle and reaching out for the bars versus stretching out and distributing your weight better. The latter generally gives you a straighter back, whereas the former causes you to curve your back. That would explain why standing up and straightening your back makes it feel better.

For me, the test is: Am I comfy on the hoods for mile after mile? Or do I find myself resting my hands farther back, or riding on the tops more than I want to? Can I ride 5 miles or so in the drops on a flat road without feeling scrunched up, my knees hitting my elbows, anything going numb? After 40 miles, does my back hurt?

Right now, the difference is around 3 1/2 inches. I tried lowering my bars 1/2 inch on one of my bikes, and danged if I didn't feel too scrunched up in the drops. AND my back hurt after 40 miles. Raised it back to 3 1/2 inches and it's comfy again. All three of my bikes are setup the same, and I'm comfy on the hoods or in the drops on all of them.

CastIron

All that work for an inch.

h2o_polo_boi

yea it sucks because I can't get it any lower due to frame size. I can adjust my stem to make it lower but my cables are all ready messed up just from lowering it 1 inch. lol

AnthonyG

Something you haven't mentioned is whether you normaly ride in the drops or on the hoods. If your not used to riding in the drops then I would practice doing that. If your bike is properly fitted then riding in the drops shouldn't be that hard.

My reccomendation is to adjust the stem and handlebars to suit your position in the drops and then the hoods are just a slightly higher position. You should set them so that your leg angles aren't too closed up when in the saddle/in the drops and also feel OK sprinting out of the saddle/in the drops. Setting the hoods down low only to find the drops too low isn't benificial in my book.

Regards, Anthony

BarracksSi

The "hands on the hoods" thing actually helped me. On the smaller frame, even with the seat waaay back on its rails, I only felt close to comfortable on top of the bars if I had my hands on the tops of the brifters (yup, "on top", like I was holding them like video game joysticks).

Later, on the two-sizes-larger frame (by 4 cm) that I have now, I noticed that my hands wanted to be closer to me on the bars, right in front of the forward bend. I got the stem swapped for one that was 2 cm shorter, and it "brought the brifter hoods underneath my hands", so to speak.

Altogether, my rookie-level process involved moving my body around to where I started to feel comfortable regardless of whether I was holding the bars correctly (as an example). Then, I'd move the bike parts around until they matched where my body wanted to place itself. I'm pretty satisfied with how it's worked out.

mandovoodoo

https://davesbikeblog.blogspot.com/20...ebar-drop.html

Usually works nicely. Up and out a ways or down and closer in work. But close to Dave's numbers in the link.

urbanknight

My comment was more of a joke, really. It is much more complicated than that. I do think it's one of the last things to adjust on a bike.

DinoShepherd

In addition to stem height, definitely check out extension. It seems like you may not have enough extension and lowering the stem helped that.

Translation: longer, not lower.

-Z

h2o_polo_boi

Tried out the 120mm at the same height when I first built my bike but the reach was too long and uncomfortable so I switched to a 100mm stem and it feels perfect.

BarracksSi

That's what worked for me. Lowering the bars was like extending them, but it wasn't quite the same as just getting them further forwards.